Mountain Performance Products L3

[Lesyo64]

I want to inform you about a situation that I personally find disturbing and wanted to enlighten / forewarn anyone considering doing business with Mountain Pass PerPerformance.

I received an email introducing a new product for the R1 from a company called Mountain Pass Performace (MPP). Since I didn't own a Tesla previously, this company was new to me. The product had promise and would provide me with the capability to go up a size on my tires without rubbing (nearly 20k miles on the stock Scorpions, time for new shoes). Additionally, MPP touted better handling at various ride heights (specifically lowest). Coupled with the assurance of easy installation and a pre-order discount, I purchased a set through MPP's website. The cart allowed for both credit card and PayPal purchases. I used a credit card and my receipt reflected such.

The next day I researched the installation and adjustment instructions as well as calling service for warranty advice. I was told this product may void the warranty and I determined the installation was too much for me. Therefore, I sent an email asking to cancel my order.

MPP graciously replied that there would be no problem and I would be credited the purchase price less a PayPal fee. I reminded them that I did not purchase through PayPal and did not incur the fees.

MPP replied they process through PayPal and sorry for the confusion.

14 days later I informed MPP that I still had not received my refund.

MPP stated that because I didn't reply they did not cancel my order and issue a refund.

I tersely responded to "issue a full refund now". I was perturbed that: 1. MPP was charging me for fees that they made the decision to incur, 2. They did not cancel my order, as requested, in the hope that they could ship product and force acceptance by incurring additional fees (shipping).

MPP replied with a scathing response that I have included below.

I informed MPP that I would inform my contacts of this transaction which MPP replied sarcastically to.

Screen shots of the emails are provided below.

I may be off base and you may find that you are ok doing business with MPP, this is my interaction with them and my review of it.

Thanks for hearing my grievances (founded or not).

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[jjswan33]

@MountainPassPerformance - Very arrogant. Not all advertising is good advertising.

 

[VSG]

I've never done business with MPP and don't know anything about them, but I have run a small business taking orders over the internet so I am seeing this issue from that perspective.

I think you misunderstood the part about PayPal, and that set you off down the wrong track. I don't see any problem with them keeping the credit card processing fee, if that's something that they can't get back. And it's 2.8%, which is completely in-line with what a merchant pays to the credit card processor. They just happen to be using PayPal as the credit card processor.

BTW, their refund policy (on their web site) spells this out - it was disclosed ahead of time:

What Is Your Return Policy?
We ask you to not order anything from us unless you are sure you want it. Returns are something that have become the norm and are incredibly wasteful. Unlike many other companies, we will never ask a customer to destroy an item, and we always reuse returned goods either as parts for warranty replacement, to give away as gifts or prizes, or if the packaging is in perfect condition, for resale.
Our resale policy is that we will accept returns within 30 days if the box is unopened. There is a restocking fee of 30% on all orders.
As our products are in high demand and are sometimes back ordered or made to order, selling parts privately is a path that many of our customers prefer to take rather than paying the restocking fee. This is a more efficient approach and is usually the best method for all involved.
In addition, our credit card processor has created a policy whereby they will not allow us to refund the processing fees on returns. This means that if we process your return and you’ve paid with a credit card or PayPal, the fees will not be able to be refunded. How frustrating! Unfortunately, this isn’t something that we can do anything about – and trust us we’ve tried!
That being said, if there is ever a problem with our parts and they do not fit, or do not work as intended, we will refund them in full. This basically never happens though, because we don’t want to be in the business of selling stuff that doesn’t work!
Our integrity is the most critical characteristic here at MPP and we will never knowingly overpromise and under deliver. You can be assured that we have extremely high standards and our primary objective is to make our customers happy!

Regardless, they asked you to confirm first and you said no, you can't keep the fee. They explained the above, that PayPay was their processor, but you didn't say OK go ahead with the refund. Seems to me the ball was in your court to approve the refund minus the credit card processing fee.

(If this were my business, I just would have issued the refund minus the fee, and not asked permission first. The refund confirmation would have shown a line item for the fee and a link to the return policy. Then it would be done with, and if you complained I would again point to the return policy. If you opened a credit card dispute, you would lose, because the policy was clearly disclosed ahead of time.)

So you got argumentative with them because you didn't understand, then they got defensive when you bullied them and threatened to go to social media and endanger their livelihood because you refused to pay the few dollars credit card processing fee. Not a good look for either of you.

But they did give you the fee back (they didn't have to), so IMO you should have dropped it at that point. Going out of your way to try to screw over a small business because of a $8.41 fee that you didn't understand is pretty unacceptable in my book.

 

[godfodder0901]

I've never done business with MPP and don't know anything about them, but I have run a small business taking orders over the internet so I am seeing this issue from that perspective.

I think you misunderstood the part about PayPal, and that set you off down the wrong track. I don't see any problem with them keeping the credit card processing fee, if that's something that they can't get back. And it's 2.8%, which is completely in-line with what a merchant pays to the credit card processor. They just happen to be using PayPal as the credit card processor.

BTW, their refund policy (on their web site) spells this out - it was disclosed ahead of time:


Regardless, they asked you to confirm first and you said no, you can't keep the fee. They explained the above, that PayPay was their processor, but you didn't say OK go ahead with the refund. Seems to me the ball was in your court to approve the refund minus the credit card processing fee.

(If this were my business, I just would have issued the refund minus the fee, and not asked permission first. The refund confirmation would have shown a line item for the fee and a link to the return policy. Then it would be done with, and if you complained I would again point to the return policy. If you opened a credit card dispute, you would lose, because the policy was clearly disclosed ahead of time.)

So you got argumentative with them because you didn't understand, then they got defensive when you bullied them and threatened to go to social media and endanger their livelihood because you refused to pay the few dollars credit card processing fee. Not a good look for either of you.

But they did give you the fee back (they didn't have to), so IMO you should have dropped it at that point. Going out of your way to try to screw over a small business because of a $8.41 fee that you didn't understand is pretty unacceptable in my book.

One of the most level-headed and well presented responses I've ever seen here. Thank you.

 

[240vPlug]

When you issue a full refund PayPal usually refunds the fees...unless that's changed recently.

Not a good look for MPP.

 

[N7Rivian]

When you issue a full refund PayPal usually refunds the fees...unless that's changed recently.

Not a good look for MPP.

that has changed. just look at the their FAQs for how to process a refund.

How do I issue a refund? | PayPal US

" You won’t pay any fees to refund a payment for goods or services, but we won’t return the fees you originally paid as the seller. "

 

[rkalbiar]

Not great responses from both parties.
Credit Card fees are the cost of doing business. Regardless on sale or refund, customer should not incur these fees.
Purchases.. Fees 'Hidden' from customer or 'Baked in' to the to cost upon purchase, sure.
Refunds.. Cost of boing business. Customer should get complete refund of fees.

 

[kong]

To threaten to out a small business and a Rivian Forum sponsor on social media for $8.41 in PayPal fees for something you overlooked does not sit well with me. Seriously petty imho.

 

[240vPlug]

In the end the business should make things right regardless if the customer is being polite, agreeable, etc. (not making any accusations of the OP).

Does MPP have a policy that clearly states processing fees are not refundable? If not, then buyer should get a full refund IMO.

The customer is always right. Sounds like the OP was frustrated because he felt like they were purposely delaying refunding the cancelled order.

Mediocre products and great CS will beat out superior products and poor CS every time.

PS. For CC processing fees it's either a cost of doing business or you have a clearly stated non refundable "convenience fee" . The ladder usually reserved for B&M locations where customers can pay cash.

We all have bad days and it doesn't help to respond to customers that way.

 

[electruck]

 

[AxelR]

MPP went out of their way to make things right for you, it’s unfortunate you didn’t notice it.

 

[MountainPassPerformance]

I've never done business with MPP and don't know anything about them, but I have run a small business taking orders over the internet so I am seeing this issue from that perspective.

I think you misunderstood the part about PayPal, and that set you off down the wrong track. I don't see any problem with them keeping the credit card processing fee, if that's something that they can't get back. And it's 2.8%, which is completely in-line with what a merchant pays to the credit card processor. They just happen to be using PayPal as the credit card processor.

BTW, their refund policy (on their web site) spells this out - it was disclosed ahead of time:


Regardless, they asked you to confirm first and you said no, you can't keep the fee. They explained the above, that PayPay was their processor, but you didn't say OK go ahead with the refund. Seems to me the ball was in your court to approve the refund minus the credit card processing fee.

(If this were my business, I just would have issued the refund minus the fee, and not asked permission first. The refund confirmation would have shown a line item for the fee and a link to the return policy. Then it would be done with, and if you complained I would again point to the return policy. If you opened a credit card dispute, you would lose, because the policy was clearly disclosed ahead of time.)

So you got argumentative with them because you didn't understand, then they got defensive when you bullied them and threatened to go to social media and endanger their livelihood because you refused to pay the few dollars credit card processing fee. Not a good look for either of you.

But they did give you the fee back (they didn't have to), so IMO you should have dropped it at that point. Going out of your way to try to screw over a small business because of a $8.41 fee that you didn't understand is pretty unacceptable in my book.

Thanks for the great reply. I think that this is a decisive topic and we can all agree that the common aggravating party here is PayPal. For us, this policy has created tension a few times. $8 is not significant but when someone wants to cancel a $3500 order it ends up being over $100 in lost fees. Not sustainable!

I'm sure those who have owned businesses will be understanding, and those who are used to not paying any fees for refunds won't like the policy. We certainly don't like it either! Perhaps we can look at a hybrid system for lower dollar amounts and preorders.

I think Les' post is fair and I appreciate him laying out the facts without any opinion one way or another.

And yes, sometimes we can have a little sass when reason fails to work. Sorry if our sense of humor didn't come across as intended!!

 

[jjswan33]

Thanks for the great reply. I think that this is a decisive topic and we can all agree that the common aggravating party here is PayPal. For us, this policy has created tension a few times. $8 is not significant but when someone wants to cancel a $3500 order it ends up being over $100 in lost fees. Not sustainable!

I'm sure those who have owned businesses will be understanding, and those who are used to not paying any fees for refunds won't like the policy. We certainly don't like it either! Perhaps we can look at a hybrid system for lower dollar amounts and preorders.

I think Les' post is fair and I appreciate him laying out the facts without any opinion one way or another.

And yes, sometimes we can have a little sass when reason fails to work. Sorry if our sense of humor didn't come across as intended!!

Maybe don't charge people CCs until you have something to ship? I know a lot of small companies do this but it is very consumer unfriendly, especially on pre-order products.

 

[SwampNut]

I was told this product may void the warranty

They lied. In fact the lying may be illegal in itself.

If I were MPP I'd simply return the $8 so I'd never hear about it again. It cost more to talk about it. And if I were OP, I would have ignored the cost because it's not unreasonable. Seeing the full conversation is very informative about how many people it takes to Tango and create a problem over nothing.

And no, it's never the principle of the thing. It's just stubbornness and narcissism.

 

[SwampNut]

Maybe don't charge people CCs until you have something to ship? I know a lot of small companies do this but it is very consumer unfriendly, especially on pre-order products.

I own a business and use PP for cards. They do the charge right away, we don't get to choose this.

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