NMC VS LFP Battery Safety - any experts out there?

[RsfRivian]

Hi

I'm a G2, R1S owner, and I'm embarking on a home solar project that will include battery storage. My local town board is frightened to death of battery storage and has imposed a temporary blanket moratorium that includes all battery chemistries. My design includes the UL9450 Sol-Ark inverters and Pytes V5 LFP batteries. I'm looking for resources to explain in plain language the ins and outs of battery backup to these very well meaning, but scared of their own shadow, board members. Thanks in advance!

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[beatle]

Toss sodium batteries in there as well. They have a lower fire risk.

NMC batteries aren't typically a great choice for solar unless you're repurposing batteries from an EV, or you have a really tight space constraint and need the energy density of NMC. They are more expensive, have a higher fire risk than LFP, and don't like being fully charged for extended periods.

"Frightened to death of battery storage" isn't really helpful in building a counterargument though. What ordinance is in place that restricts battery storage? Capacity? Purpose? Chemistry? Location? Their fear is unlikely to be founded on any kind of facts. They can spout off a bunch of unlikely "what if..." scenarios, but there are also plenty of fire risks associated with a house that have nothing to do with battery storage. People just accept those risks as the benefits of having a house with electricity, a fireplace, natural gas, grills, etc. outweigh them.

 

[RsfRivian]

Thanks for the reply! This is the problem. They have instituted a blanket moratorium with no parameters whatsoever. I'm trying to argue that the code be developed so that systems be UL-approved and tested and installed to UL9450 standards, which cover Inverter/Battery combinations, capacity limits, individual battery spacing, electrical hookups, etc.

They want a presentation - so I'm looking for resources that lay people can understand.

 

[beatle]

If you're having this system installed, you should talk to your installer about what to put in a presentation. They will likely be more equipped to sell the idea. That's typically part of their job anyway. They might accompany you or even do the presentation on your behalf in the interest of drumming up other business in your neighborhood.

With such a blanket moratorium for no reason, however, it sounds like your board is just anti-solar based on some arbitrary cult belief that "solar bad," and they invent their own narrative with their own "facts" to back it up. There's usually no convincing cult members since their beliefs weren't founded on real facts to begin with.

 

[mkg3]

Thanks for the reply! This is the problem. They have instituted a blanket moratorium with no parameters whatsoever. I'm trying to argue that the code be developed so that systems be UL-approved and tested and installed to UL9450 standards, which cover Inverter/Battery combinations, capacity limits, individual battery spacing, electrical hookups, etc.

They want a presentation - so I'm looking for resources that lay people can understand.

Unfortunately one cannot fight ignorance or worse, fear that they are emotionally attached to.

Moving may be the best option. I know it sounds drastic but if you want solar, the only solution maybe moving to more rational community.

 

[impulsoren]

I was once told point blank by a retired politician that “data does not drive voting, it’s the personal stories that most affect decision-making” in the legislature. He told me to always bring at least one specific emotional story when trying to influence a politician’s vote, in general for most legislators “don’t bother with the data”.
I think you should always bring a data-heavy presentation for those who understand how facts work, but also gather some stories. “Joe Diddley in Memphis Tennessee plugged his car in during a storm, but due to xxx standard that you just saw in the previous slide, the battery did not catch on fire, electricity did not flow into the grid, and he was able to watch the Super Bowl.”That sort of stuff actually makes laws that run our governments.

 

[Jonger1150]

Unless money doesn't matter to you -- I'd wait for sodium home storage. I haven't found any yet, but long term they should be cheaper and less temperature impacted. I'm in Michigan where it was -19F just over a week ago. I want these mounted outside.

 

[Jonger1150]

Toss sodium batteries in there as well. They have a lower fire risk.

NMC batteries aren't typically a great choice for solar unless you're repurposing batteries from an EV, or you have a really tight space constraint and need the energy density of NMC. They are more expensive, have a higher fire risk than LFP, and don't like being fully charged for extended periods.

"Frightened to death of battery storage" isn't really helpful in building a counterargument though. What ordinance is in place that restricts battery storage? Capacity? Purpose? Chemistry? Location? Their fear is unlikely to be founded on any kind of facts. They can spout off a bunch of unlikely "what if..." scenarios, but there are also plenty of fire risks associated with a house that have nothing to do with battery storage. People just accept those risks as the benefits of having a house with electricity, a fireplace, natural gas, grills, etc. outweigh them.

Conservatives are fed a steady diet of misinformation every day they log into Facebook or turn on Fox News. This is 100% the reason behind it. Oil companies fund conservative politicians to extend the market share of fossil fuels. It's working -- but only for so long.

 

[RsfRivian]

I was once told point blank by a retired politician that “data does not drive voting, it’s the personal stories that most affect decision-making” in the legislature. He told me to always bring at least one specific emotional story when trying to influence a politician’s vote, in general for most legislators “don’t bother with the data”.
I think you should always bring a data-heavy presentation for those who understand how facts work, but also gather some stories. “Joe Diddley in Memphis Tennessee plugged his car in during a storm, but due to xxx standard that you just saw in the previous slide, the battery did not catch on fire, electricity did not flow into the grid, and he was able to watch the Super Bowl.”That sort of stuff actually makes laws that run our governments.

Good advice. Thanks!

 

[M3_R2]

I thought I had heard it all. I live in one of the most conservative areas in North America when it comes to electrical regulations but was allowed to install 2 LFP Powerwalls in my under-porch cold cellar. I was required to have a self-closing door and a smoke alarm and keep the rest of the area free.

If you had a solar company that took care of all the permitting for you, perhaps this would have gone smoother, I'm not sure. It's in their interest to know the ins/outs of the rules and regulations and local politics. If they have no interest in this, find a different company.

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