Oh another cancellation.

[mgc0216]

By a short time period, and Ford did it in less time, with more reservations, and more importantly - higher profit per unit. To your second point - and you think that's good? Other manufacturers can retool a plant for less $$ and they wouldn't build it in a state that doesn't allow them to sell in that state...
DirtyB

Curious:

Why do you sign your forum posts when your screen name is clearly visible?

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[mgc0216]

I’ve been calling for a new CEO for awhile. There are simply too many failures and problems at this point. RJ should be a chief product officer and chairman but he has not demonstrated he should run what is supposed to be a large scale auto company.

Yes because a new CEO is going to fix the global supply chain and immediately clear up front line problems.

Bless your heart.

 

[SANZC02]

Concept of gross vs net applies - those 90k LE orders are sold below cost. Remember 1 Mar. So no they don't pay for the GA plant.
DirtyB

In the real world this is true but for a startup they are running off of cash on hand. The actual money to build these are coming out of their burn rate so net verses gross means a little different in this case. The other misrepresentation here is that they are selling these below cost. In reality they are selling them for a price above cost but less than the planned 25-30% margins.

The money they make on any sales goes back into the cash to cover burn rates until they can scale.

 

[Dark-Fx]

I do fully agree Rivian shouldn't be having people pay for trucks that they find problems on. They shouldn't ask for payment until the truck clears their inspection process, whatever that entails. And they should be providing refunds if they can't fix that problem in a short period of time (I don't know how long, about a week).

While I can understand frustration with the cancelled deliveries, what is Rivian supposed to do? Rivian is probably cancelling because they found a problem on the trucks. Should they deliver problem trucks? Rivian started deliveries to employees to help figure out a process, I guess they are still working on that. But people were upset employees got deliveries first. CEO should be fired because a few trucks have problems, and the deliveries were cancelled? Is your CEO fired every time there is a problem where you work? Should Rivian deliver problem trucks? Don't complain that your delivery was cancelled, complain you didn't get a problem truck.

People are buying from a startup, unfortunately, there are bound to be problems. Even new car salesmen say they wouldn't buy a new car model for the first year, to let the new problems get sorted out. We are buying from a new manufacturer. Have to adjust expectations from every other purchase, unless you are an early Tesla adopter.

People shouldn't pay for the truck until step 8 opens if they are that worried about it. It will open without you paying for it, but if they don't get the money before they are scheduled to deliver, they won't deliver it.

 

[Trandall]

People shouldn't pay for the truck until step 8 opens if they are that worried about it. It will open without you paying for it, but if they don't get the money before they are scheduled to deliver, they won't deliver it.

^ THIS! <<emphasis added>> Even some guides are recommending this as a proactive measure to prevent what is happening to @Citibeach and a few others.
I hate interjecting into the CEO debate but can't resist... The big three automakers left to their own would have NEVER introduced EV's it simply was contrary to their business model. It took disrupter CEO's and keep in mind the same "move fast and break things" mentality it took to make EV's happen is the same behavior that causes some unforced errors. Some people "fanboys" get this more than others. My point is should we have endless forgiveness for disrupter startup missteps, no, should we cast aside transformational CEO with every misstep, again no.
I hope Rivian never becomes a company chasing higher stock price. Boeing is a cautionary tale in this practice.

 

[HackyMoto]

While I can understand frustration with the cancelled deliveries, what is Rivian supposed to do? Rivian is probably cancelling because they found a problem on the trucks. Should they deliver problem trucks?

You've already said what they should do

I do fully agree Rivian shouldn't be having people pay for trucks that they find problems on. They shouldn't ask for payment until the truck clears their inspection process, whatever that entails. And they should be providing refunds if they can't fix that problem in a short period of time (I don't know how long, about a week).

We're all fanboys and girls of Rivian but it is okay to be critical of the Company even if others are getting their Rivian knickers in a twist over that critique when things don't go the way it was perceived to be done. (the joys of the internet)

Not every PhD Engineer makes a great CEO. Sometimes it is better for these Engineers to be left to tinker and make the Product better.

However give RJ a chance, it wont be me or any other joe blow share holder who will make that demand, it will be the institutional shareholders who will demand a change if their investments are not panning out for them

 

[ERguy]

People shouldn't pay for the truck until step 8 opens if they are that worried about it. It will open without you paying for it, but if they don't get the money before they are scheduled to deliver, they won't deliver it.

I don't understand why this isn't just common sense.

People are so darn eager for their trucks they are foregoing rational thought and simply throwing their money are Rivian before the trucks have even completed the post assembly quality review processes.

Rivian will let people pay for their trucks before the service center has it in possession, which is silly. It's even sillier that people are doing it.

 

[koersontap]

Exactly. Also, he has crazy demand for products he cannot build fast enough. While I do truly feel for OP and I would be mad as hell too, we did sign up to a fledgling automaker that will have growing pains. Some of the Tesla horror stories don't match Rivian.

However, there have been too many cancellations to call it "growing pains".

This is a process issue, and an easy one to solve (in the grand scheme of things). I bet in a month we stop hearing about all of these cancellations.

I can never unsee your avatar. I hate you. ?

 

[mabowden]

I can never unsee your avatar. I hate you. ?

It's hard to see on such a tiny thumbnail, but it's actually quite a terrible photoshop job....

For your viewing pleasure.

 

[LaunchGreen]

I don't understand why this isn't just common sense.

People are so darn eager for their trucks they are foregoing rational thought and simply throwing their money are Rivian before the trucks have even completed the post assembly quality review processes.

Rivian will let people pay for their trucks before the service center has it in possession, which is silly. It's even sillier that people are doing it.

You can’t pay until it’s passed the assembly review. At that point, delivery is like 10 days away. Yes there could be issues, but I don’t see why this is viewed as so ridiculous in your mind. I pay for alll kinds of things before delivery. I bought a fridge last year and it took 8 months, same with my couch (3 months).

 

[ERguy]

You can’t pay until it’s passed the assembly review. At that point, delivery is like 10 days away. Yes there could be issues, but I don’t see why this is viewed as so ridiculous in your mind. I pay for alll kinds of things before delivery. I bought a fridge last year and it took 8 months, same with my couch (3 months).

Because vehicles typically go through rigorous quality review inspections before delivery. These are much more important and detailed than they are for things like couches and fridges. Your examples aren't even remotely similar or applicable to buying a vehicle.

These inspections occur at the service centers for Rivian. They occur at dealerships for companies like Ford and Chevy. When you order a car from Ford or Chevy, you are never asked to pay prior to the post delivery inspection, so why should you ever pay for the vehicle prior to the inspection by Rivian?

Vehicles are prone to damage when transported across the country on a trailer.

I think this seems like common sense. If you don't think so, then just look at the multiple delivery issues posted on these forums... They pretty much sum up the reasons you shouldn't pay in advance quite well. Scratches, dents, crashes, paint defects, panel alignments, missing fasteners, features not working, etc.

 

[LaunchGreen]

Because vehicles typically go through rigorous quality review inspections before delivery. These are much more important and detailed than they are for things like couches and fridges. Your examples aren't even remotely similar or applicable to buying a vehicle.

These inspections occur at the service centers for Rivian. They occur at dealerships for companies like Ford and Chevy. When you order a car from Ford or Chevy, you are never asked to pay prior to the post delivery inspection, so why should you ever pay for the vehicle prior to the inspection by Rivian?

Vehicles are prone to damage when transported across the country on a trailer.

I think this seems like common sense. If you don't think so, then just look at the multiple delivery issues posted on these forums... They pretty much sum up the reasons you shouldn't pay in advance quite well. Scratches, dents, crashes, paint defects, panel alignments, missing fasteners, features not working, etc.

I get how you're thinking about it, but I fail to see the difference vs how most online ordering works. I understand the "it's always been done that way" and "that's how the dealership model works" perspective, but if you break out of historical norms, it isn't that much of a stretch.

I've paid in advance for flights that have got cancelled, devices that have been DOA and btw, my fridge had a dent on first delivery and had to go back and be replaced. Failed pre-delivery inspection. Very frustrating.

I get that there have been issues, but the primary problem is likely that this is a new company that has a higher error rate than established companies. If it was 1 in 10,000 that had an issue instead of 1 in 100, then I think people would be more accepting of changing their assumptions about how it should work.

 

[Mbxmikey]

If people think that it’s all roses with the other auto makers, they are being silly. The supply chain is affecting everyone. Don’t pretend that Rivian is the only one not getting cars out the door.
And if you think all the other car makers are putting out a consistently better product, you could be correct but only by a small margin. We just bought a brand new Peterbilt. They have been making them for ever. Had it for 2 months. And now it has been in the shop for 2 months and still there. Don’t be silly, be realistic. I’m sorry your truck has been delayed but don’t act like this is unique to Rivian and somebody needs to pay…

 

[DJG]

Because vehicles typically go through rigorous quality review inspections before delivery. These are much more important and detailed than they are for things like couches and fridges. Your examples aren't even remotely similar or applicable to buying a vehicle.

These inspections occur at the service centers for Rivian. They occur at dealerships for companies like Ford and Chevy. When you order a car from Ford or Chevy, you are never asked to pay prior to the post delivery inspection, so why should you ever pay for the vehicle prior to the inspection by Rivian?

Vehicles are prone to damage when transported across the country on a trailer.

I think this seems like common sense. If you don't think so, then just look at the multiple delivery issues posted on these forums... They pretty much sum up the reasons you shouldn't pay in advance quite well. Scratches, dents, crashes, paint defects, panel alignments, missing fasteners, features not working, etc.

It's quite simple. The majority of deliveries are to your home and require the logistics and expense of transport to get it there. It's unreasonable to expect a company to flatbed your truck to your house just for you to refuse delivery because of fixable cosmetic issues. You also have the return option that you don't with a traditional dealer.

Also, I think it would literally be illegal in states like TX for them to handle the transaction any other way due to direct sales laws. I cannot hand them a certified check in my driveway for the vehicle after I inspect it.

Lastly, even if none of the above were true and there was zero reason to ask for payment upfront, Rivian still has the leverage to do so and you're in the extreme minority of people that may not be willing to accept it at this time, so they have no reason to change policy. Perhaps that changes in the future, but not right now. They'll gladly proceed to the thousands of other people happy to wire them money in advance.

 

[Dirty_B]

It's hard to see on such a tiny thumbnail, but it's actually quite a terrible photoshop job....

For your viewing pleasure.

I double dog dare you to wrap it like that when you get it - it's so terrible it's awesome.

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