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R1S Gen 2 Dual Max: Buy back program advice?

Donald Stanfield

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I agree with all your points except that what happened to us creating high stress situations with the Rivian needing to get towed, cameras not working when it was brand new, and the software totally stopped working in the first week or purchase.. these are not 'inconveniences'. Being stranded somewhere in the first 6 months of getting a new Rivian is a safety issue. Cameras and computer modules breaking down are a safety issue as well for a new Rivian owner.

While we are fascinated with tech being in tech ourselves, we prioritize safety and peace of mind in our car experience.

However, you are right in that the price of Rivian and tech offered doesn't match up to other brands you mentioned. That and the space and dog options is what drove us to pick Rivian over other brands. We still love everything about the Rivian except the unreliability which is a priority for us. It's disappointing to have to even make this choice as this was our first full EV after having a plug in hybrid for years and reliability of brands like Subaru and Honda can't match up to the Rivian experience.
These are inconveniences, NOT safety issues. Your car not working is NOT a safety issue; it's something a capable adult should be able to deal with. Cameras are not a safety issue either. Millions of people drive every day without cameras.

Enjoy your new Subaru or Honda.
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bigsky

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You don’t get cutting edge tech at 100k and expect Toyota quality and reliability.
Paid more than that for my 2020 Tesla Model S Raven, and the reliability of that vehicle has been nothing but outstanding. Paid somewhat less for my Tesla 2022 MYP, and that car reliability has been bulletproof also.
My R1SQ cost close to that, and the functional/mechanical reliability is up there as well.
So both high $ and reliability apparently can coexist; many Rivian owners might attest to that. What I do not understand is why some Rivians have such major issues and many more do not. Perhaps that is what Rivian QC experts need to look at and fix, but the same situation might happen with other vehicle manufacturers, too. Perhaps it is the luck of the draw regardless of brand.
 

Donald Stanfield

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Paid more than that for my 2020 Tesla Model S Raven, and the reliability of that vehicle has been nothing but outstanding. Paid somewhat less for my Tesla 2022 MYP, and that car reliability has been bulletproof also.
My R1SQ cost close to that, and the functional/mechanical reliability is up there as well.
So both high $ and reliability apparently can coexist; many Rivian owners might attest to that. What I do not understand is why some Rivians have such major issues and many more do not. Perhaps that is what Rivian QC experts need to look at and fix, but the same situation might happen with other vehicle manufacturers, too. Perhaps it is the luck of the draw regardless of brand.
And I've had only one minor issue with two different Rivians, so mine have been reliable as well; however, I understand that the more complex the vehicle, the greater the opportunity for errors. Doubly so from a new vehicle manufacturer. It's not hard to understand why to me. Rivian hasn't been making vehicles very long, and the R1S is arguably the most complex SUV on the market. Both factors are contributing to the hit or miss initial reliability.

Rivian isn't my first premium vehicle, and I've had problems with all of them. If I wanted trouble-free, I'd be driving a Toyota.
 

bigsky

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And I've had only one minor issue with two different Rivians, so mine have been reliable as well; however, I understand that the more complex the vehicle, the greater the opportunity for errors. Doubly so from a new vehicle manufacturer. It's not hard to understand why to me. Rivian hasn't been making vehicles very long, and the R1S is arguably the most complex SUV on the market. Both factors are contributing to the hit or miss initial reliability.

Rivian isn't my first premium vehicle, and I've had problems with all of them. If I wanted trouble-free, I'd be driving a Toyota.
I do not want to add anything else about this lest I jinx my Teslas and my Rivian!!

Drove nothing but Hondas and Toyotas in my entire ICE life. Yes, Toyota and Honda reliability is legendary, but maintenance was pricey. Of course, for me nothing but Honda and Toyota dealers to service them.
At 21 years old (count them), my trusty 4Runner V8 is still going strong and looking at worst a third that age. It is my winter workhorse while my fair-weather EVs sit out the punishing winter in my garage. But my 4Runner does require regular maintenance and repairs anymore (old age) at the tune of $2k a year. Still a winner; $2k a year beats replacing it.
 

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SreyaColvard

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Something is wrong with a company that provides cutting edge, off road vehicles with poor build quality and even worse service. Many years ago, when KIA was floundering due in part to reliability problems, new company leadership offered a bumper to bumper 100k warranty. The thinking was the firm would either go broke correcting its errors or thrive by building better cars. Maybe this is what Rivian needs.
The Kia story is a good one. I just wish that Rivian makes some changes that greatly improve their quality and reliability. For the price range they're competing in, one should expect higher quality and service.

And you're right, we feel something is wrong when you're made to feel like having minor issues constantly and the car ending up in service every few months is 'normal'. No it's not normal!
 
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SreyaColvard

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These are inconveniences, NOT safety issues. Your car not working is NOT a safety issue; it's something a capable adult should be able to deal with. Cameras are not a safety issue either. Millions of people drive every day without cameras.

Enjoy your new Subaru or Honda.
Ok we should agree to disagree. You are ok with the 'inconvenience' of being stranded on the highway with doors not unlocking and you and your family inside the car. Then you have a pretty low bar for safety. Too bad that the Rivian quality control seems in line with that low grade quality standard. They're burning cash every day thanks to so many owners having so many 'inconveniences' and because of this type of mindset improving nothing when it comes to quality for a 100k car. That sucks.
 
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SreyaColvard

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Perhaps autopilot. Have never tried it. FSD works quite well on any road I have used it on, painted lines or not. v12 2025.20.6; FSD v12.6.4
Thankfully autopilot is not a priority for us. We still trust our own driving than a machines. That said if I'm not feeling well enough I'll skip driving and stay home if that's an option. I see very minimal cases of the need for autopilot for our driving. But good to know either way.
 

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Sounds like you had a lot of issues. Posting here without exhaustive details (which is virtually impossible) on what exactly went wrong and how you felt will frustrate you more because most people here will not get the full picture but still try to help. Only you know every issue and how you felt. These types of issues are part factual and part psychological. There is a post about a Rivian in Kazakstan and his tolerance is very high. But, that's a matter of perspective and tolerance.

Only you can make the decision stay with the brand or go somewhere else.
 

SkiLizardHead2

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Yes we are just starting the buy back process. The email they sent us after evaluating our case mentions replacement and we are considering that option. This is why I made this post. We do love the car and the features. It's just been a very disappointing and stressful new car experience until now which makes us hesitate to take a replacement. It's hard to say how many of their cars are just badly quality and which one we will end up with.

It's encouraging to o learn about your positive experience with Rivian.. When I look at posts on this forum , the frequency of similar issues or serious issues seems high.

The first time the new Rivian stalled before our winter trip to Santa Barbara we had a terrible support experience they wouldn't consider that a new car wasn't working. So we had to escalate..they took the car and gave us a replacement Gen 1. We didn't have the app tied to it and just used the key card. We didn't run into a single glitch and charged in various places along the way. That actually gave us confidence at first.

But our Gen 2 has had one problem after another each time needing a major fix such as the computer module needing replacement in addition to the 12 v battery issue. That says something when it happens multiple times in the first six months of purchase. Rivian have done their bit to give us Uber credits and refund the first month lease because the car wasn't even with us the first month after going to service in the first week itself. It does seem Rivian is draining cash big time. But are they really watching quality? A lot of the other comments seem skeptical about build quality. We are as well and while the replacement seems tempting, we're not confident the quality of the new one will be solid.

It helps to hear about your positive experience. Thanks!
Just another data point - a friend has a 2018 tesla MX that he had multiple issues in the first two years of ownership - mostly software and had it in the shop perhaps a dozen times. However, my general experience is that Tesla software seems to be a bit more mature and bullet proof compared to Rivian. But then again R1 is more complex than the my early tesla's (2016 MX, 2018 M3)

This forum has had a few other R1's lemoned but as the poster mentioned all of the bad issues get posted with little positive experiences. This doesn't help you any but would be an interesting software engineering study to understand why a small percentage of complex vehicles get so many issues.

Your requirements for volume, utiliity, range, capability, cost, etc will be hard to find at the moment but I believe you will be taking a bit of risk with any other recent new model of EV even from legecy manufactures. Wtih any vehicle it is always good practice to wait a year or so before buying a new model - but in this day of SW defined stuff one or more SW updates help on fixing issues - assuming a solid hardware architecture integrated tightly with SW.
Interesting that VW group is paying Rivian 5.8B for their SW.
 

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Donald Stanfield

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Ok we should agree to disagree. You are ok with the 'inconvenience' of being stranded on the highway with doors not unlocking and you and your family inside the car. Then you have a pretty low bar for safety. Too bad that the Rivian quality control seems in line with that low grade quality standard. They're burning cash every day thanks to so many owners having so many 'inconveniences' and because of this type of mindset improving nothing when it comes to quality for a 100k car. That sucks.
Curious how every time you tell the story it gets just a bit more dramatic. I don't know how you got stuck in the car with the manual handles that are easily accessible from either front seat. The quality is fine for me, but I'm not a whiner. It sounds like you had one semi serious issue and a whole bunch of small ones yet you're on here making a federal case out of it.
 

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The Kia story is a good one. I just wish that Rivian makes some changes that greatly improve their quality and reliability. For the price range they're competing in, one should expect higher quality and service.

And you're right, we feel something is wrong when you're made to feel like having minor issues constantly and the car ending up in service every few months is 'normal'. No it's not normal!
FWIW, I have had three Rivians. My early vin Gen1 R1T, my wife had a Gen1 R1S that we traded in for a Gen2 R1S. I'm about 80k miles in on Rivians. So three anecdotes:

My R1T has had several minor things and one major issue happen over three years, which was the rear inverter dying and I became a sitting duck on the side of the road. They got me a tow directly to the SC and I was back on the road in less than a week. It sucked, it was stressful, it was also an extremely rare incident.

Neither R1S has had any real issues that hampered use. I actually don't remember if the first one had any real issues. The second one's only real issue so far was the air compressor hose got pinched beneath the frame at the factor and didn't work on delivery. It has a couple of interior rattles when on specific rough roads that we are getting addressed this month, which is one year after taking delivery.


They have a lot to work on with service and reliability. However, the vast majority of the reliability issues I've seen among a very large network of friends and acquaintances with R1 vehicles has been tied to the suspension and quad motor half shafts.

I know a few people who had early Vin Gen1 vehicles that ended up doing a buyback, and they all stayed with Rivian and as far as I can recall, none of them have had any real issues with their second vehicle. Other than a giant tree fell on one of them, the truck survived, has been repaired, and is back in his hands.

Getting stranded sucks. It's emotionally tiring. I wouldn't blame you at all for moving on to another vehicle entirely. I'm not trying to convince you into getting another R1. But I figured I'd share someone else's experience while you're considering a straight swap.


If you do, I would really caution you against getting an EX90 if you're considering it. I know of a few people who have one and they have all had a shit experience. Like, getting stranded, getting locked out, being unable to charge properly, it's all over the place. Everyone says that people go to forums to complain, which is true, but there is usually some balance (maybe like 80/20 complainers?). Check out the EX90 subreddit. It's a disaster.
https://www.reddit.com/r/VolvoEX90/
 

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Thankfully autopilot is not a priority for us. We still trust our own driving than a machines. That said if I'm not feeling well enough I'll skip driving and stay home if that's an option. I see very minimal cases of the need for autopilot for our driving. But good to know either way.
I love my R1T. It only has 4900 miles on it, so I am just getting started, but so far zero issues that require a service center visit. This is just a data point for you to consider, but based on your experience, I would take a break from Rivian. In fact, I recommend you take a break from buying an electric SUV.

The reason I say that is because Rivian is not alone with struggling reliability in the BEV market. My Ford Mach-e was very reliable, but many others had experiences like you have had with your Rivian.

As backwards as it sounds, BEVs are less reliable than their equivalent ICEV. All of them are struggling with reliability issues, even Kia. One day that won't be the case, but for now, that is the price we pay for being early adopters. The only company that has significant experience working through BEV reliability issues is Tesla. If you have to get a BEV, then consider a Model X.

Rivian has additional challenges the competition (except Lucid) doesn't have: everything they are doing is new to them. Everything, from procurement to logistics to mass production. Ford (for example) has been figuring out mass production for over 120 years. Rivian has been figuring it out for three years. Personally I think they are doing an amazing job for a start-up company who is trying to build using technology even the legacy car companies are struggling with.

Lexus makes a very nice SUV that is price competitive with Rivian:
2025 Lexus LX - Luxury SUV | Lexus.com
They have a hybrid version as well.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do. Let us know if you get another Rivian and how that experience goes. I hope it is as good as mine has been.
 

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Ok we should agree to disagree. You are ok with the 'inconvenience' of being stranded on the highway with doors not unlocking and you and your family inside the car. Then you have a pretty low bar for safety. Too bad that the Rivian quality control seems in line with that low grade quality standard. They're burning cash every day thanks to so many owners having so many 'inconveniences' and because of this type of mindset improving nothing when it comes to quality for a 100k car. That sucks.
Just know that a couple of posters on here have a cult like devotion to the brand but the majority are more pragmatic.

For what it’s worth, the issues you outlined sound both terrible but not remotely common & I highly doubt you’d run into a repeat of them should you choose a replacement Rivian
 

Donald Stanfield

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Just know that a couple of posters on here have a cult like devotion to the brand but the majority are more pragmatic.

For what it’s worth, the issues you outlined sound both terrible but not remotely common & I highly doubt you’d run into a repeat of them should you choose a replacement Rivian
Cult like devotion my ass, I don't see something that's a minor issue being some major world changing event. Many people here clearly haven't faced much adversity in their lives, as something as minor as their car camera not working is considered a major emergency. My rancor has little to do with Rivian and everything to do with not making a mountain out of a molehill.

When someone has posted a legitimate serious safety issue I have not questioned it or given them shit. There are many examples of this on this forum. I won't pretend minor issues are major just to pad people's egos.
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