R1S Subwoofer Upgrade failure - HELP!

[4hand]

Hi All!

We all know the problems with the low-end on the stock system. I have a 2023 R1S and wanted to upgrade the system a bit. I chatted with a well-known, experienced audio shop and went with the following setup:

JL RD500/1 Amp
JL TW5 sub with enclosure
Bass knob
8 AWG wire to power/ground the amp

The shop installation was pretty straightforward. Tapped the existing sub input wires and ran new wires to the amp inputs. Then, there is 8 AWG wire running from the amp to the 12v battery and vehicle ground.

It sounds AWESOME but lit nearly every warning light there is. All sensors stopped working, air suspension warning, airbag warning, etc.

I assume this is from the power draw of the amp? I am not an audio tech so I need some help here. The audio shop recommended a capacitor/power source to solve the issue. Seems reasonable but looking for input from you guys who use the 12v to power your amps.

Thanks!

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[Electrified Outdoors]

It's a 500w amp. 12v should be able to handle that I would think.

I would check the wiring/ground. Did they install an inline fuse? Could be 12v is weak too.

 

[redantpile]

Agree with the previous post. I would check the 12 volts to see if it's low, and also disconnect power to the amp to see if it changes the errors or voltage. I have been running JD250/1 for months with no issues but that's lower power than yours.

You might also make sure that the amp turns off when not in use, since they wired to the battery. Just a thought.

 

[Zoidz]

1) Disconnect the amp, do you get the alert lights? Measure the battery voltage.
2) Connect the amp with no music playing and measure the battery voltage.
3) play some music and measure the battery voltage.
4) Where specifically did they tap the 12 volt feed to the amp?
4) report back here

Your 2023 R1S probably already has a capacitor. Prior to roughly 2/23 they shipped two batteries. Around 2/23 they started shipping one battery and one capacitor, replacing the second battery. The 12v battery is only 18-19 amp-hour, it's charged by a 400v to 12v DC-DC converter. The 12 volt DC system seems to be "optimized" for what Rivian calculated as normal load *for a Rivian*, and from issues people have reported, it seems like it does not have much available "headroom" for powering auxilary devices. You 500w amp may just be pulling more current than the system was designed for. There is no need for a big 800 amp battery - big batteries in ICE are only there for the starter drawing 50 - 200+ amps, depending on the vehicle and the ICE size.

Installers need to learn that the Rivian 12v system is very much unlike 99% of the other vehicles they have worked on and the amperage to power big accessories is just not there.

This is probably my biggest disappointment with Rivian engineering - considering that it is an "Adventure" vehicle, they have severely undersized the 12 volt system, limited and removed 12 volt accessory outlets, etc. Adventure vehicles need a robust 12 volt power system for dozens of types of accessories and mods. Not sure why they failed to recognize this.

 

[4hand]

1) Disconnect the amp, do you get the alert lights? Measure the battery voltage.
2) Connect the amp with no music playing and measure the battery voltage.
3) play some music and measure the battery voltage.
4) Where specifically did they tap the 12 volt feed to the amp?
4) report back here

Your 2023 R1S probably already has a capacitor. Prior to roughly 2/23 they shipped two batteries. Around 2/23 they started shipping one battery and one capacitor, replacing the second battery. The 12v battery is only 18-19 amp-hour, it's charged by a 400v to 12v DC-DC converter. The 12 volt DC system seems to be "optimized" for what Rivian calculated as normal load *for a Rivian*, and from issues people have reported, it seems like it does not have much available "headroom" for powering auxilary devices. You 500w amp may just be pulling more current than the system was designed for. There is no need for a big 800 amp battery - big batteries in ICE are only there for the starter drawing 50 - 200+ amps, depending on the vehicle and the ICE size.

Installers need to learn that the Rivian 12v system is very much unlike 99% of the other vehicles they have worked on and the amperage to power big accessories is just not there.

This is probably my biggest disappointment with Rivian engineering - considering that it is an "Adventure" vehicle, they have severely undersized the 12 volt system, limited and removed 12 volt accessory outlets, etc. Adventure vehicles need a robust 12 volt power system for dozens of types of accessories and mods. Not sure why they failed to recognize this.

thanks for the reply! I don’t have access to my R1s at the moment but thought I’d answer what I could. It appeared to have two batteries from what I briefly saw but will double check. There were two red plastic covers. Would the factory cap appear differently? Once the amp was disconnected and after several resets and time, the warnings cleared.

Assuming the amp is pulling too much power off the 12v, what is the solution here?

 

[Zoidz]

thanks for the reply! I don’t have access to my R1s at the moment but thought I’d answer what I could. It appeared to have two batteries from what I briefly saw but will double check. There were two red plastic covers. Would the factory cap appear differently? Once the amp was disconnected and after several resets and time, the warnings cleared.

Assuming the amp is pulling too much power off the 12v, what is the solution here?

I believe all have two red plastic covers, the battery/capacitor is underneath. I don't know of any way to determine what you have other than removing the cover and visually checking.

Assuming the amp is pulling too much power, you have a few options:
1) Avoid trial and error. Get a smaller amp that others have reported to work problem free.
2) Power the problematic amp from a 12 volt power supply connected to the 120 VAC inverter. The 120VAC inverter is powered by the main traction battery, not the 12 volt battery.
3) Use a separate LiFePO4 battery and recharge it as needed. Joking, but it is a solution.

 

[4hand]

I believe all have two red plastic covers, the battery/capacitor is underneath. I don't know of any way to determine what you have other than removing the cover and visually checking.

Assuming the amp is pulling too much power, you have a few options:
1) Avoid trial and error. Get a smaller amp that others have reported to work problem free.
2) Power the problematic amp from a 12 volt power supply connected to the 120 VAC inverter. The 120VAC inverter is powered by the main traction battery, not the 12 volt battery.
3) Use a separate LiFePO4 battery and recharge it as needed. Joking, but it is a solution.

thanks for the reply! If there is a capacitor and battery, would the solution be to hook the power to the amp to the cap? Also, I assume the capacitor would be easy to spot once I remove the red cap?

if there are two batteries, would a capacitor between the battery and amp make a difference? I have a NXT hybrid cap ready to install but will return if this is not a possible solution. If not, I’ve seen the posts around the “pink” wire providing 12v. Right now, the amp is supplied power by a 8AWG wire. Would the much smaller gauge “pink” wire be sufficient for powering the amp? Or, if I tap the 12v wire powering the inverter, where is that located/color?

thanks for all the help!

 

[4hand]

1) Disconnect the amp, do you get the alert lights? Measure the battery voltage.
2) Connect the amp with no music playing and measure the battery voltage.
3) play some music and measure the battery voltage.
4) Where specifically did they tap the 12 volt feed to the amp?
4) report back here

Your 2023 R1S probably already has a capacitor. Prior to roughly 2/23 they shipped two batteries. Around 2/23 they started shipping one battery and one capacitor, replacing the second battery. The 12v battery is only 18-19 amp-hour, it's charged by a 400v to 12v DC-DC converter. The 12 volt DC system seems to be "optimized" for what Rivian calculated as normal load *for a Rivian*, and from issues people have reported, it seems like it does not have much available "headroom" for powering auxilary devices. You 500w amp may just be pulling more current than the system was designed for. There is no need for a big 800 amp battery - big batteries in ICE are only there for the starter drawing 50 - 200+ amps, depending on the vehicle and the ICE size.

Installers need to learn that the Rivian 12v system is very much unlike 99% of the other vehicles they have worked on and the amperage to power big accessories is just not there.

This is probably my biggest disappointment with Rivian engineering - considering that it is an "Adventure" vehicle, they have severely undersized the 12 volt system, limited and removed 12 volt accessory outlets, etc. Adventure vehicles need a robust 12 volt power system for dozens of types of accessories and mods. Not sure why they failed to recognize this.

here is a look at the batteries. Seems like two batteries to me but not sure. Rivian disconnected the amp so I am not sure where it was connected though is does look like it was connected to the empty post/bolt on the right of the left battery. Any advice here on where to connect?

 

[4hand]

I believe all have two red plastic covers, the battery/capacitor is underneath. I don't know of any way to determine what you have other than removing the cover and visually checking.

Assuming the amp is pulling too much power, you have a few options:
1) Avoid trial and error. Get a smaller amp that others have reported to work problem free.
2) Power the problematic amp from a 12 volt power supply connected to the 120 VAC inverter. The 120VAC inverter is powered by the main traction battery, not the 12 volt battery.
3) Use a separate LiFePO4 battery and recharge it as needed. Joking, but it is a solution.

From what I’ve been reading, seems it is a capacitor on the left. Would the strategy be to power the amp from the battery or capacitor? Seems the capacitor was where we had issues.

 

[Polar]

What’s you VIN run OP? Would help us determine if you have two batts or batt/cap.
Oh you’ve taken into a service center now - it sounds like. Good luck!!!

 

[Zoidz]

From what I’ve been reading, seems it is a capacitor on the left. Would the strategy be to power the amp from the battery or capacitor? Seems the capacitor was where we had issues.

You are looking at the power distribution plate on top of the battery or cap. I have not taken mine apart or seen pictures of the difference between the two, so I can't tell you from hands on experience if you have the capacitor or two batteries. However, the attached photo makes it look like you have the capacitor.

I have not been able to find any power distribution wiring diagrams, which is annoying. The following is pure but educated conjecture on my part. I suspect that the capacitor is wired in parallel to the battery with a power resistor in between. That allows the cap to charge from the battery without being directly connected. The cap can provide reserve surge power for a few seconds during surge demand, but the cap voltage will eventually drop. Rivian probably connected certain circuits to the capacitor that they know have low and fixed power requirements, such as the computer modules, so they know the capacitor would not normally discharge. If your sub was connected to the cap, it would draw more current than Rivian expected and drop the voltage below the expected design voltage, throwing those devices into low voltage faults.

So, if we assume the above is correct, connecting the amp to your battery on the right in your picture, instead of the capacitor on the left in your picture, could solve the problem.

Another important note. The black cubes in your picture are high power fuses. If they connected to the cap in the left picture, on the unused terminal that shows a star washer imprint, hopefully they used a fuse!

 

[4hand]

You are looking at the power distribution plate on top of the battery or cap. I have not taken mine apart or seen pictures of the difference between the two, so I can't tell you from hands on experience if you have the capacitor or two batteries. However, the attached photo makes it look like you have the capacitor.

I have not been able to find any power distribution wiring diagrams, which is annoying. The following is pure but educated conjecture on my part. I suspect that the capacitor is wired in parallel to the battery with a power resistor in between. That allows the cap to charge from the battery without being directly connected. The cap can provide reserve surge power for a few seconds during surge demand, but the cap voltage will eventually drop. Rivian probably connected certain circuits to the capacitor that they know have low and fixed power requirements, such as the computer modules, so they know the capacitor would not normally discharge. If your sub was connected to the cap, it would draw more current than Rivian expected and drop the voltage below the expected design voltage, throwing those devices into low voltage faults.

So, if we assume the above is correct, connecting the amp to your battery on the right in your picture, instead of the capacitor on the left in your picture, could solve the problem.

Another important note. The black cubes in your picture are high power fuses. If they connected to the cap in the left picture, on the unused terminal that shows a star washer imprint, hopefully they used a fuse!

Thanks for the update. So, interestingly, I tried exactly what you mentioned. First, Rivian definitely concluded that the warning lights are directly due to connecting the amp/speaker to the "battery". They, of course, disconnected the power/ground leads and after a hard reset and a day sitting, the warning lights disappeared. Yesterday, after a little investigation, it does seem I have a battery (on the right) and a cap (on the left). It seems the amp was previously connected to the cap. So, I connected the amp positive lead to a positive pole on the battery (there is an inline fuse). I then connected the ground to an existing bolt directly to the chassis. So far, everything seems to be working without issue. I'll report back if something strange occurs.

Thanks all for the input!

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