R2 overhead window switches: backwards?

[Millbarge]

Except they haven't always been that way.

"Pull = up" is somewhat recent safety regulation.

Most cars until even the mid '90s had "rocker switches" that were "push one side down to lower the window, push the other side down to raise the window". And which side was "up" and which side was "down" was completely arbitrary per manufacturer. I had two cars at the same time that had reversed operation compared to each other. On some, the "forward" direction was "window down", on others it was "window up."

Here's the window switch assembly from a mid 90s Ford F-series pickup:

Note that they use the exact same physical switch for the door lock - which works in reverse! All three switches have a "sticks up" bit and a "indented down" bit. For the windows, forward/sticking-up rolls the windows up; rearward/indented rolls the windows down. For the lock, sticking-up *LOCKS* the door, which makes the lock lever go DOWN, while the indented side UNLOCKS the door, making the lock lever go UP.

Chevy used similar switches, and while the usage for the windows was the same, the door lock functionality was reversed. "indented" locked, "sticking up" unlocked.

Yet the Saab window switches from the same era were reversed - forward was *DOWN*, and rearward was up. (The opposite of Ford.)

And if you want really screwed up, when Saab implemented the modern-style "pull to raise, push to lower", the front and rear were reversed in orientation!

But are you THIS old?

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[VSG]

But are you THIS old?

Switches? You had switches? When I was young we had to work to close our own windows using hand cranks. And there were still complainers - oh, it makes more sense for close to be clockwise and open to be anti-clockwise ... And there were no child proof window locks or seat belts - it was only their weak and short little arms that stopped them from jumping out the window of the moving car.

(All this is true.)

 

[savethemanual]

Switches? You had switches? When I was young we had to work to close our own windows using hand cranks. And there were still complainers - oh, it makes more sense for close to be clockwise and open to be anti-clockwise ... And there were no child proof window locks or seat belt - it was only their weak and short little arms that stopped them from jumping out the window of the moving car.

(All this is true.)

Haha, that was me. I was messing around with the door handle while my Mom went around a corner....door opened and out I went (because of course I wasn't wearing a seatbelt).

 

[JeremyMKE]

TLDR - Its Backwards in my opinion. I think its should be user programmable.

We were talking about this over the weekend, I think it is consistent with all the other switches but it is an interesting UX problem. Personally I think its backwards. The door switches mirror the window action. Down is down and Up is Up. I think thats the behavior it should mimc.

EDIT As I only made it two pages in before I posted I am now aware that this is a federal regulation.

 

[Millbarge]

Switches? You had switches? When I was young we had to work to close our own windows using hand cranks. And there were still complainers - oh, it makes more sense for close to be clockwise and open to be anti-clockwise ... And there were no child proof window locks or seat belt - it was only their weak and short little arms that stopped them from jumping out the window of the moving car.

(All this is true.)

yeah but the cranks weren't "backwards"....

 

[Millbarge]

TLDR - Its Backwards in my opinion. I think its should be user programmable.

We were talking about this over the weekend, I think it is consistent with all the other switches but it is an interesting UX problem. Personally I think its backwards. The door switches mirror the window action. Down is down and Up is Up. I think thats the behavior it should mimc.

well is you didn't TLDR, you'd know why it's not "user programmable".....

 

[TechDad]

As has been stated multiple times throughout this thread - it's a federal regulation.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/49/571.118

Look for section S6-C

(c) Any actuation device for closing a power-operated window must operate by pulling away from the surface in the vehicle on which the device is mounted. An actuation device for closing a power-operated window must operate only when pulled vertically up (if mounted on the top of a horizontal surface), or out (if mounted on a vertical surface), or down (if mounted on the underside of an overhead surface), or in a direction perpendicular to the surrounding surface if mounted in a sloped orientation, in order to cause the window to move in the closing direction.

 

[SANZC02]

Reading this thread and taking one drive and now it is a non-issue…

 

[VSG]

yeah but the cranks weren't "backwards"....

You had to rotate them anti-clockwise, which was ... wait for it ... counter-intuitive. See what I did there?

 

[JeremyMKE]

well is you didn't TLDR, you'd know why it's not "user programmable".....

Aggressive, I hope it made you feel better to try and shame me.

 

[Millbarge]

You had to rotate them anti-clockwise, which was ... wait for it ... counter-intuitive. See what I did there?

no....

 

[Millbarge]

Aggressive, I hope it made you feel better to try and shame me.

You're the one who weighed in while admitting you just couldn't be bothered with the substance of the thread; if you feel shame, that's on you.

 

[Dark-Fx]

Here I found it (apologies if somebody already mentioned it).

The relevant rule is FMVSS No. 118, 49 CFR § 571.118, which governs power-operated windows, partitions, and roof panels.

Most importantly, §571.118(S6)(c) explicitly says that a power-window control used to close a window must operate by pulling it away from the surface on which the control is mounted. For a control mounted on the underside of an overhead surface, the regulation specifically says the closing action must be pulling the switch downward.

The underlying safety objective is to prevent accidental closing of a window.

Thanks ChatGPT

 

[CharonPDX]

But are you THIS old?

Well, my parents car when I was growing up, as well as my first two personally-owned cars were manual windows.

But my grandparents had a Lincoln with that style window switch!

 

[dscoti]

Aggressive, I hope it made you feel better to try and shame me.

Unfortunately get used to it, the shaming, sarcasm, belittling, and so on.

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