Rivian Communication RAP1+Lidar

[SirBob]

Might be a pessimistic opinion, but I really feel that Rivian needs to be more forthcoming with information related RAP1 and Lidar being added to the R2.

I know they said sometime late 2026 to early 2027, but fundamentally sometime in the not so distant future there will be R2s leaving Normal that are "better" than the R2s leaving right now.

I'm really disappointed that in the newsletter for the June 9th launch it included no information about when those two items are going to be added and how they are going to work the timeline for it.

I have questions such as
How will the cutoff date work? For instance will orders before January 3rd (made up date) be all "old" gen R2s?

How are they going to tell us this new R2 has these features?

How do they plan on explaining to people who don't know that RAP1 and Lidar are coming that they just purchased a "less" capable vehicle for certain things?

How do they plan on avoiding what Tesla just did where they pretty much said "Yea your Model 3 from X date isn't as good as Y date so it just won't ever be able to do FSD, Sorry not sorry" The newsletter does contain the disclaimer "Autonomy+ product features remain available during the lifetime of feature support for the hardware on the vehicle at delivery. Available features vary by vehicle model. Autonomy+ upgrade will remain with the vehicle upon ownership transfer " So they already have their legal butts covered.


I'm excited for the vehicle , I'm definitely getting one as long as there isn't anything crazy in the works with safety/reliability which is also why I feel bad for anyone getting one this year because they're going to have 1 of 25k vehicles that are just worse than the 200k+ coming after while also dealing with all the first edition issues.

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[DuoRivian]

I see you are new here. This has been discussed in other threads. Rivian have been more forthcoming than other companies and for most people it doesn’t matter since it only affects autonomy and capability in a couple of years time (will take time for the models to evolve and improve and reach the current compute ceiling).

I would expect a 2027.5 model year sometime early 2027 to accommodate this one change. R2s coming out next month are 2027 model year and I expect the standard RWD will be a 2028 starting in late 2027.

 

[Mos Eisley]

I see you are new here. This has been discussed in other threads. Rivian have been more forthcoming than other companies and for most people it doesn’t matter since it only affects autonomy and capability in a couple of years time (will take time for the models to evolve and improve and reach the current compute ceiling).

I would expect a 2027.5 model year sometime early 2027 to accommodate this one change. R2s coming out next month are 2027 model year and I expect the standard RWD will be a 2028 starting in late 2027.

Agreed- additionally, the reason RAP1 won't make launch is because the development and production timeline has been drawing out and, as RJ has said publicly, as much as they didn't want to, they had to go forward with launching R2 without it or it potentially could drag R2 launch out for another year. They have been very clear that it was not optimal. What IS clear, is that the end of the dev cycle and availability is still not fully known. They caught enough heat for "promising" R2 would launch at $45k (however one chooses to interpretate of those statements on launch price). So let's not stick a firm date in a calendar that cannot be met for what will arguably be the second-biggest R2 announcement since launch.

One can be optimistic and buy into the recent language from Rivian (and by the online pundits) "launch R2's w/o RAP1" will not be obsoleted for years" and be happy to get what is available, or be pessimistic and fear that you'll either 1) be missing out on the latest/greatest and or 2) that Rivian is pulling the wool over your eyes and/or 3) that that language is just spin because maybe they are concerned that all the "I'm waiting until RAP1 and Lidar" will kill initial uptake.
For me, I'll likely take what is available when my number comes up.

 

[DuoRivian]

Agreed- additionally, the reason RAP1 didn't maker launch is because the development and production timeline has been drawing out and, as RJ has said publicly, as much as they didn't want to, they had to go forward with launching R2 without it or it potentially could drag R2 launch out for another year. They have been very clear that it was not optional. What IS clear, is that the end of the dev cycle and availability is still not fully known. They caught enough heat for "promising" R2 would launch at $45k (however one chooses to interpretate of those statements on launch price). So let's not stick a firm date in a calendar that cannot be met for what will arguably be the second-biggest R2 announcement since launch.

One can be optimistic and buy into the recent language from Rivian (and by the online pundits) "launch R2's w/o RAP1" will not be obsoleted for years and be happy to get what is available, or be pessimistic and fear that you'll either 1) be missing out on the latest/greatest and or 2) that Rivian is pulling the wool over your eyes and/or 3) that that language is just spin because maybe they are concerned that all the "I'm waiting until RAP1 and Lidar" will kill initial uptake.
For me, I'll likely take what is available when my number comes up.

Agree with your take and for those that want the latest (#1 on your comment) we know they are recruiting for people to design RAP2 so by late 2028 or early 2029 (two years from RAP1) there will be a new chip and maybe other changes to the sensors. If you wait for the latest a fear missing out then you will never buy because something is always coming.

 

[Just Passing By]

I imagine one day Rivian may make a public statement along the lines of "We have been shipping R2 with the RAP1 processor and LIDAR for the last month (or some other relatively short time frame) and we are already seeing the benefits of the additional data collection for our Autonomy+ data flywheel." I.e. after they have flushed out all the non-RAP1 based vehicles in inventory.

In other words, no advance warning of when they will start shipping with RAP1/LIDAR because that will almost certain drive some (and perhaps many) potential customers to defer taking delivery at that point just to wait for the update, even for those that don't particularly care about it. Such a dip in demand could adversely affect sales for a quarter.

 

[Hereforthesnacks]

Agree with your take and for those that want the latest (#1 on your comment) we know they are recruiting for people to design RAP2 so by late 2028 or early 2029 (two years from RAP1) there will be a new chip and maybe other changes to the sensors. If you wait for the latest a fear missing out then you will never buy because something is always coming.

While I generally agree, here you aren’t waiting for the latest or something theoretical. Rivian announced two products: R2v1 and R2v2 at the same time, with staggered releases. So, folks are kinda in limbo and I empathize a little more with them than the general person who is paralyzed by what could be released and what they could be missing out on.

 

[rbdavis808]

Agree with your take and for those that want the latest (#1 on your comment) we know they are recruiting for people to design RAP2 so by late 2028 or early 2029 (two years from RAP1) there will be a new chip and maybe other changes to the sensors. If you wait for the latest a fear missing out then you will never buy because something is always coming.

Yes, but there are near- vs. far-horizon changes and big vs. little changes. RAP1/LIDAR is a big (new chip architecture, new sensor type) near-horizon change, RAP1 to RAP2 probably not so big, and definitely much farther away. For me it's not a question of never buying but rather a question of timing the buy so as to catch the big change, especially when the wait involved is just not all that long. Others may prefer to actually wait longer so as to avoid early-adopter issues. To each their own, there's no same right answer for everyone.

 

[Dark-Fx]

Lidar addition is an obvious external change to the vehicle. There will be no surprises because of that, so I don't see Rivian deciding to wait for the model year changeover that would have to start next year.

 

[DogPound]

I would guess a simple way to begin Lidar roll out would be have the two R2 variants available at same time. SO you can purchase cheaper R2 or the "optioned" R2 with lidar until the roll out and possibly R1 Gen 3 with Lidar is announced (total speculation). I willl honestly be surprised if Lidar is available on R2 before they announce a Gen 3 with it for sale late 26, early 27.

 

[tpberding]

Might be a pessimistic opinion, but I really feel that Rivian needs to be more forthcoming with information related RAP1 and Lidar being added to the R2.

I know they said sometime late 2026 to early 2027, but fundamentally sometime in the not so distant future there will be R2s leaving Normal that are "better" than the R2s leaving right now.

I'm really disappointed that in the newsletter for the June 9th launch it included no information about when those two items are going to be added and how they are going to work the timeline for it.

I have questions such as
How will the cutoff date work? For instance will orders before January 3rd (made up date) be all "old" gen R2s?

How are they going to tell us this new R2 has these features?

How do they plan on explaining to people who don't know that RAP1 and Lidar are coming that they just purchased a "less" capable vehicle for certain things?

How do they plan on avoiding what Tesla just did where they pretty much said "Yea your Model 3 from X date isn't as good as Y date so it just won't ever be able to do FSD, Sorry not sorry" The newsletter does contain the disclaimer "Autonomy+ product features remain available during the lifetime of feature support for the hardware on the vehicle at delivery. Available features vary by vehicle model. Autonomy+ upgrade will remain with the vehicle upon ownership transfer " So they already have their legal butts covered.


I'm excited for the vehicle , I'm definitely getting one as long as there isn't anything crazy in the works with safety/reliability which is also why I feel bad for anyone getting one this year because they're going to have 1 of 25k vehicles that are just worse than the 200k+ coming after while also dealing with all the first edition issues.

The simple answer to that dilemma is to lease for a short term (2-3 years) and either buy it out of the lease at the end, or lease/buy a new one with higher tech if it is that much better.

 

[Mos Eisley]

I imagine one day Rivian may make a public statement along the lines of "We have been shipping R2 with the RAP1 processor and LIDAR for the last month (or some other relatively short time frame) and we are already seeing the benefits of the additional data collection for our Autonomy+ data flywheel." I.e. after they have flushed out all the non-RAP1 based vehicles in inventory.

In other words, no advance warning of when they will start shipping with RAP1/LIDAR because that will almost certain drive some (and perhaps many) potential customers to defer taking delivery at that point just to wait for the update, even for those that don't particularly care about it. Such a dip in demand could adversely affect sales for a quarter.

Only if RAP/LIDAR comes at no additional cost. I could see the base model never offering it.

 

[Tejkalra]

The simple answer to that dilemma is to lease for a short term (2-3 years) and either buy it out of the lease at the end, or lease/buy a new one with higher tech if it is that much better.

If I am that concerned. Yes I will do that. If not that much difference buyout my lease. If there is a big difference, buy a latest one after my lease ends.

 

[mdpa]

Saw this article about Lidar and thought it was interesting enough to share. I still have some reservations with the Launch edition, not including Rivian’s ”next gen” system.

 

[Gen(R3)Xer]

You will be able to tell the difference between a RAP1+LiDar R2 and those without based on the LiDar bump (see below).

Rivian suggested that the autonomous features of both vehicles would be about the same for the next few years. If you don’t care about that get a Launch Edition if you can afford it and it’s available. If you do care about autonomy AND you plan on keeping the vehicle longterm then you probably want to wait until next year, which won’t be hard to do because only 25K-26K R2s are going to be made this year.

Many people are thinking that the Premium trim will be the first one with the RAP1+LiDar, but only Rivian knows for sure. The Launch Edition will eventually be replaced with a Performance trim, but the upgrades will all be sold separately (A+, tow package, key fob, etc.)

Based on Rivian’s previous R1 Launch Editions (from 7/2021 for R1T and 8/2021 for R1S to 1/2022), and the auto industry in general, the R2 Launch Edition will probably be available for 6-7 months.

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