Rivian "Joe Mode"

[RexRemus]

True but it takes a very good touch to get smooth stops compared to an ICE or an EV that will coast. I also think it may be harder for people with smaller feet and smaller frames (shorter legs and less body mass) to feather the pedal to make stopping/slowing smooth. Additionally, the heavy regen as opposed to a coast does not allow the driver to cover the break which is a critical defensive driving practice that helps avoid accidents. Also, does the regen turn on the brake lights? If not, seems like asking for a dear end collision.

One-pedal driving means you're always covering the brake - you just lift off and start slowing down immediately, while you are actively slowing down (aggressively if you've fully lifted) you can move and then apply additional braking via the friction brakes - but you can't say on one hand the deceleration of regen is "bad" and then pretend it doesn't exist when it's beneficial. You ALWAYS have braking immediately available with regen on.

And yes EVs turn on brake lights with regen. I saw your posts in the other thread, that some don't, but you're here, in a Rivian forum and they do, so let's not split hairs. If you want to discuss an EV that doesn't do it, go to that forum and raise the issue.

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[Ingo B]

Younguns don't understand the whole feathering thing. As someone that only used to drive std transmission cars, (and before hill hold exists) you learned pretty damn quick how to feather the clutch. I could hold a car on a 40 degree incline all day long without ever touching the brakes and then accelerate smooth as silk. But youngsters?...a few years ago I had a Golf R manual and took it to have the state inspection, the poor kid gets in the car to drive it around back...sits in it for a good five minutes, gets out and goes back into the office. A couple minutes later an older women comes out hops in, while muttering about this generation, and whips it around back. Damn kids these days!

Yeah, I miss driving a stick. I learned and drove in SF for years. Those hills man....BUT if I could drive there, I could drive anywhere.

 

[rpmtexas]

One-pedal driving means you're always covering the brake - you just lift off and start slowing down immediately, while you are actively slowing down (aggressively if you've fully lifted) you can move and then apply additional braking via the friction brakes - but you can't say on one hand the deceleration of regen is "bad" and then pretend it doesn't exist when it's beneficial. You ALWAYS have braking immediately available with regen on.

And yes EVs turn on brake lights with regen. I saw your posts in the other thread, that some don't, but you're here, in a Rivian forum and they do, so let's not split hairs. If you want to discuss an EV that doesn't do it, go to that forum and raise the issue.

You are wrong. That is not covering the break. Covering the brake means having your foot off the gas and hovering over the brake pedal. You cannot do this in a Rivian as it has no coast setting. And I was correcting someone who said all EVs turn on break lights with regen. They don’t. It’s a known issue. Get your facts straight before you try to critique someone. And I’m not sure what the Rivian does if you lift off the gas (start heavy regen braking) and but then increase pressure on the gas pedal to slow the rate of braking? Does it keep the brake lights on?

 

[godfodder0901]

You are wrong. That is not covering the break. Covering the brake means having your foot off the gas and hovering over the brake pedal. You cannot do this in a Rivian as it has no coast setting.

I think he just means that you are poised to instantly start decelerating, just like 'covering the brake' in a traditional friction brake setup.

And I’m not sure what the Rivian does if you lift off the gas (start heavy regen braking) and but then increase pressure on the gas pedal to slow the rate of braking? Does it keep the brake lights on?

It does. You can verify it by looking at the real-time vehicle representation on the dash or, like me, the reflection of the HMSL on the bed-mounted rails.

 

[PappaBolt]

Joe mode just makes the interior sounds only come out the front speakers so that it doesn’t disturb people, mostly young children, in the back.

Wait what?

 

[Jordman]

While I won’t discuss how your argument requires exact precision from the driver, it’s also a problem when the truck changes regen strength based on existing battery strength. I.e., it turns off regen with 100% charge. Which means muscle memory is now dependent upon battery state.

This is why, in my view, Porsche has it right with the Taycan. No regen unless the driver engages it. And coasting is more efficient as well.

As a frequent race car driver, I think my skills in driving a car are honed more than most. The pedal-lift-regen decision is not conducive to smooth car control.

Just to put my 2¢ in regarding coasting: I have a 2015 BMW with a diesel engine that has an ECO mode where if you lift off the accelerator, the transmission freewheels. I use this mode quite a bit and end up averaging more than 45 mpg. It's a fun feature and I'll miss it when I get my R1T.

 

[RexRemus]

You are wrong. That is not covering the break. Covering the brake means having your foot off the gas and hovering over the brake pedal. You cannot do this in a Rivian as it has no coast setting. And I was correcting someone who said all EVs turn on break lights with regen. They don’t. It’s a known issue. Get your facts straight before you try to critique someone. And I’m not sure what the Rivian does if you lift off the gas (start heavy regen braking) and but then increase pressure on the gas pedal to slow the rate of braking? Does it keep the brake lights on?

Get your facts straight... I'm not sure what the Rivian does...

Might wanna take your own advice there.

@godfodder0901 basically addressed both points already. If you're being pedantic then sure, one-pedal is "not the same" as covering the brake. If you're looking at the end-game functionality of what covering the brake does... which is provide an immediate/faster ability to decelerate the vehicle if an emergency/unexpected condition arises. Then you already have that all on a single pedal. You can "coast" - feather the pedal down, and immediately brake (fully/partially lift off without the delay of moving your foot from gas to brake), and then reapply throttle (again without the delay of moving from brake to gas) if needed. If you are still decelerating (but less) you will still have brake lights as appropriate for your current rate of deceleration.

But sure, it's not "literally" covering the brake... however capability-wise it's as effective, possibly even better. But it does admittedly require adjustment and practice/skill to feel comfortable. But that naturally comes with time in the seat.

 

[just_lex]

Wait what?

ya, it is definitely something nice in the Tesla. that and the fart sounds...perfect for embarrassing tweens and teens.

 

[PappaBolt]

For the non-tesla crowd (myself included), here’s the explainer. Mystery solved.

https://www.slashgear.com/1222581/joe-mode-a-must-know-setting-for-tesla-owners/

 

[Quick]

Get your facts straight... I'm not sure what the Rivian does...

Might wanna take your own advice there.

@godfodder0901 basically addressed both points already. If you're being pedantic then sure, one-pedal is "not the same" as covering the brake. If you're looking at the end-game functionality of what covering the brake does... which is provide an immediate/faster ability to decelerate the vehicle if an emergency/unexpected condition arises. Then you already have that all on a single pedal. You can "coast" - feather the pedal down, and immediately brake (fully/partially lift off without the delay of moving your foot from gas to brake), and then reapply throttle (again without the delay of moving from brake to gas) if needed. If you are still decelerating (but less) you will still have brake lights as appropriate for your current rate of deceleration.

But sure, it's not "literally" covering the brake... however capability-wise it's as effective, possibly even better. But it does admittedly require adjustment and practice/skill to feel comfortable. But that naturally comes with time in the seat.

I would argue this is incorrect as region does not provide the equivalent stopping power of stepping on the brake - which is what covering the brake allows for. Kid runs out in the road quickly, the driver can jam on the brake and bring the car to a stop much faster than the region.

Regan just slows to an eventual stop.

 

[Dark-Fx]

I would argue this is incorrect as region does not provide the equivalent stopping power of stepping on the brake - which is what covering the brake allows for. Kid runs out in the road quickly, the driver can jam on the brake and bring the car to a stop much faster than the region.

99 times out of 100, I'm not going to be coasting with my foot over the brake in a situation where a kid might pop out between cars (in a vehicle that will coast with no feet on pedals). I'll still have to move my right foot off the accelerator to begin braking. In an EV with regen on the accelerator this means the vehicle starts slowing down before my foot makes it completely over to the brake pedal since I don't drive with both feet.

 

[Quick]

99 times out of 100, I'm not going to be coasting with my foot over the brake in a situation where a kid might pop out between cars (in a vehicle that will coast with no feet on pedals). I'll still have to move my right foot off the accelerator to begin braking. In an EV with regen on the accelerator this means the vehicle starts slowing down before my foot makes it completely over to the brake pedal since I don't drive with both feet.

Right, which isn't how *I* drive.

Scenario - enjoying some vigorous driving around some roads with semi-blind corners. I want to carry the speed through the corner but protect for potential things running out. Lift off accelerator (allow car to continue momentum), cover brake just in case. Note the intent is not to have ht car slow down but be ready in case.

This is impossible with one-pedal driving unless you two-foot the car.

i do this in my Taycan All. The. Time. My goal is not to always generate the most power, it's about the most enjoyment of the driving experience. I should be able to turn off one-pedal driving.

 

[Dark-Fx]

Right, which isn't how *I* drive.

Scenario - enjoying some vigorous driving around some roads with semi-blind corners. I want to carry the speed through the corner but protect for potential things running out. Lift off accelerator (allow car to continue momentum), cover brake just in case. Note the intent is not to have ht car slow down but be ready in case.

This is impossible with one-pedal driving unless you two-foot the car.

i do this in my Taycan All. The. Time. My goal is not to always generate the most power, it's about the most enjoyment of the driving experience. I should be able to turn off one-pedal driving.

You're one of those super annoying people to drive behind who can't keep a constant speed.

 

[rpmtexas]

Get your facts straight... I'm not sure what the Rivian does...

Might wanna take your own advice there.

@godfodder0901 basically addressed both points already. If you're being pedantic then sure, one-pedal is "not the same" as covering the brake. If you're looking at the end-game functionality of what covering the brake does... which is provide an immediate/faster ability to decelerate the vehicle if an emergency/unexpected condition arises. Then you already have that all on a single pedal. You can "coast" - feather the pedal down, and immediately brake (fully/partially lift off without the delay of moving your foot from gas to brake), and then reapply throttle (again without the delay of moving from brake to gas) if needed. If you are still decelerating (but less) you will still have brake lights as appropriate for your current rate of deceleration.

But sure, it's not "literally" covering the brake... however capability-wise it's as effective, possibly even better. But it does admittedly require adjustment and practice/skill to feel comfortable. But that naturally comes with time in the seat.

It is not the same at all. The whole point is having your foot physically over the brake to eliminate the reaction time without braking unnecessarily. This is impossible in the Rivian currently.

 

[Quick]

You're one of those super annoying people to drive behind who can't keep a constant speed.

While that is semi-correct, it's exceptionally unlikely if you're following me at these speeds that you'd find it annoying.

However, I'd also argue that the lift-off decel of one-pedal-driving leads to far more speed volatility than coasting.

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