Specific Highway Range Usecase / Pack Degradation Questions

[BlueBox30]

I’m writing this on behalf of my dad, who the circumstances of these questions pertains to.

This post is regarding everyone’s favorite topic right now… highway speed range! However unlike majority of people’s unreasonable concerns regarding range, I think that my dad specific case is a legit example of questioning whether the R2 will work for him.

He is coming from a 2023 Model Y AWD which he has put 85,000 miles on. He has a bi-weekly work commute of ~230 miles one way from Berkeley, CA to Cambria, CA and then back. For those familiar with the route it’s the 880-101 (majority) -46. He doesn’t drive at excessive highway speeds, typically stays between 65-75mph for majority of the trip.

Based on the data we’ve seen from some of these early range tests, around 250 miles at mild highway speeds seems like an achievable number.

Having never owned a Rivian, my question is what can be expected in terms of the battery’s degradation over the first few years? I’m curious because his Model Y’s pack has seen significant (roughly 15%) degradation, and now gets ~278 miles at 100% SOC, which means he rarely can make it to his work without having to stop and charge.

Of course we won’t know the specifics with R2’s pack yet, but I’ve heard positive things about R1’s pack heath over time, (I know they use different cells) so I am curious what people expect for R2’s degradation.

All of this context is to ultimately ask for his work commute, would the R2 be a safe bet for him being able to make his drive without having to charge until he gets to his work location? The numbers cut it close so just getting any second options would be appreciated. He loves the R2 and feels like it’s the perfect car for him. We just want to make sure the range makes sense for his needs. Thank you in advance!

Sponsored

 

[mikehmb]

Most of us have experienced little to no degradation so far, including the high-milers.

As you and your dad are probably aware, battery degradation is most pronounced with time*(high SOC + high temp). If he's charging to 100% then setting off, as I imagine he would do for his long trips, the effects should be quite minimal.

 

[ksurfier]

I’m writing this on behalf of my dad, who the circumstances of these questions pertains to.

This post is regarding everyone’s favorite topic right now… highway speed range! However unlike majority of people’s unreasonable concerns regarding range, I think that my dad specific case is a legit example of questioning whether the R2 will work for him.

He is coming from a 2023 Model Y AWD which he has put 85,000 miles on. He has a bi-weekly work commute of ~230 miles one way from Berkeley, CA to Cambria, CA and then back. For those familiar with the route it’s the 880-101 (majority) -46. He doesn’t drive at excessive highway speeds, typically stays between 65-75mph for majority of the trip.

Based on the data we’ve seen from some of these early range tests, around 250 miles at mild highway speeds seems like an achievable number.

Having never owned a Rivian, my question is what can be expected in terms of the battery’s degradation over the first few years? I’m curious because his Model Y’s pack has seen significant (roughly 15%) degradation, and now gets ~278 miles at 100% SOC, which means he rarely can make it to his work without having to stop and charge.

Of course we won’t know the specifics with R2’s pack yet, but I’ve heard positive things about R1’s pack heath over time, (I know they use different cells) so I am curious what people expect for R2’s degradation.

All of this context is to ultimately ask for his work commute, would the R2 be a safe bet for him being able to make his drive without having to charge until he gets to his work location? The numbers cut it close so just getting any second options would be appreciated. He loves the R2 and feels like it’s the perfect car for him. We just want to make sure the range makes sense for his needs. Thank you in advance!

A short stop will almost definitely be needed…

This is ballpark, you should plug the route into ABRP and adjust the reference consumption to at least 300 but less than 350 wh/mi.
Ballpark/guestimates:
60 mph = 290 - 230 = 60 miles left (20%)
65 mph = 270 - 230 = 40 miles left (15%)
68 mph =260 - 230 = 30 miles left (11%)
70 mph =250 - 230 = 20 miles left (<10%)

if it were me I’d stop at one of the many options between Paso Robles and Salinas…also the wind heading north can cut range significantly…last time couple months ago was getting 1.35. I like the Tesla Supercharger in San Argo, has a restroom and an Olive Mill

 

[Jeremy3292]

Does he leave home at 100% and then charge at work to 100% also?

 

[mkg3]

...He has a bi-weekly work commute of ~230 miles one way from Berkeley, CA to Cambria, CA and then back. For those familiar with the route it’s the 880-101 (majority) -46. He doesn’t drive at excessive highway speeds, typically stays between 65-75mph for majority of the trip....

The way I would consider this problem is to get a vehicle that exceeds the needed range by at least 20%. The reason for that are 3 folds:
1) Battery charging is fastest between 20~80% so as frequent as the commute is, the last thing anyone wants to do is to spend more time charging to 100% from low single or teen percent SOC. These times add up and will get under your skin after the new wears off from the vehicle. Also if the driving speed is closer to 75mph than 65mph, it will reduce range.

2) All battery cells degrade over time and there is typically 3%~5% degradation in the first two years, then stay steady state for several years. If the 100% available range is barely enough, it will just add to the stress of making it or not. Alternatively. have to accept must charge in route.

3) Weather consideration. No winter issues like most of the country in CA but it does rain and rain has a significant impact on range. especially at the freeway speeds. Both drag and rolling resistance increases and hits energy consumption; hence, reducing range.

So based on what I know today about the current R2, it falls off the list of options.

 

[emroch]

Worth noting that it seems like Rivian uses part of their battery buffer to account for degradation over time. So if your 100% range is 250 miles, it will stay 250 miles (until the buffer is gone, but that is probably not expected within the battery warranty period).

The R2 doesn't have enough evidence to say whether that is really the case yet, so I wouldn't necessarily bank on it. I would echo the recommendation to size the batter based on about 70% discharge (10-80%). Not only is that where DCFC is fastest, but the NCMA chemistry in R2 is healthier when it isn't constantly charged to 100% or discharged super low.

2 questions: when you say biweekly do you mean 2x/week or every two weeks? And what is the charging situation like on each end? You wouldn't want to arrive with 10% or less if you then had to L2 charge while still using the car for daily work.

 

[Jeremy3292]

Worth noting that it seems like Rivian uses part of their battery buffer to account for degradation over time. So if your 100% range is 250 miles, it will stay 250 miles (until the buffer is gone, but that is probably not expected within the battery warranty period).

Nah that buffer will be gone long before 120k miles hits lol. A 2 kWh buffer is only like 2% of the R2 battery.

 

[Apprunner]

Yeah...sounds like he's more suited to a current Tesla or the new iX3 or Volvo EX60. Long-range road warrior isn't the R2 forte.

 

[BlueBox30]

Worth noting that it seems like Rivian uses part of their battery buffer to account for degradation over time. So if your 100% range is 250 miles, it will stay 250 miles (until the buffer is gone, but that is probably not expected within the battery warranty period).

The R2 doesn't have enough evidence to say whether that is really the case yet, so I wouldn't necessarily bank on it. I would echo the recommendation to size the batter based on about 70% discharge (10-80%). Not only is that where DCFC is fastest, but the NCMA chemistry in R2 is healthier when it isn't constantly charged to 100% or discharged super low.

2 questions: when you say biweekly do you mean 2x/week or every two weeks? And what is the charging situation like on each end? You wouldn't want to arrive with 10% or less if you then had to L2 charge while still using the car for daily work.

All good information! Sorry, I should have better specified; bi weekly as in every other week. He splits his time 50/50 in Berkeley and in Paso Robles/Cambria area. At home setup in Berkeley is a gen3 tesla wall connector which he charges to 100% for his trip. At work I believe he has a level 2 setup. I think it pulls 32A and adds about 25mi/hr.

 

[BlueBox30]

Does he leave home at 100% and then charge at work to 100% also?

He generally leave home at 100% SOC and then when he gets to work he charges to a daily 80% limit while he is there for the week, then charges back to 100% when he heads back home.

Sponsored