The New Reality - Dual Motor Compared to Lightning

[bd5400]

It’s still unknown right now but Rivian may try to achieve range closer to quad motor max battery on a dual motor large battery which will can make a compelling case for existing reservation holders to change their configuration. I think it’s quite achievable considering the weight reduction and the optimization that they can do with in house motors and drivetrain.

The dual motor large battery is being quoted at 320+ miles by Rivian. While they certainly haven't finalized that, hence the +, I can't imagine they are going to suddenly find 80 more miles of range over their current estimates.

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[EVTruckSeeker]

I don’t have the technical knowledge but I don’t think they need to go 100% of the max range. They can combine it with some additional features in the new configuration ie faster charging to make it a compelling package. It’s to their benefit to really try to switch reservation holders to the new configuration to reduce their losses. Keep in mind rivian still needs more reservation after Mar 1. Some people may now hold off realizing they have to pay 20% more now for the same trucks that are not being delivered in 2-3 years. I think rivian needs to find a way to distinguish gen 1 and gen 2.

 

[E.S.]

Is it still a good deal with 'only' 600 hp?

I love how you put "only 600 HP". As if that number is something to scoff at ?

I still think that the dual motor option is still a better deal than the Lightning, despite it having less torque. All of the features that come in the Adventure package, hell the Explorer package, still trumps what Ford offers. I had to spec out a top end trim Lightning to come close to what Rivian grants (and it was still missing features). Still, that list you just posted does give great insight on the matter. Thanks for taking the time to do this and putting it up

 

[Dark-Fx]

Dual Motor that's digitally controlled is more than enough. There are a ton of benefits to dropping the two for most practical use cases. Range is going to increase and it will be more than enough traction for the majority of use cases. It's also going to help driving dynamics a ton since it's taking off weight at the corners.

The dual motor in my Polestar seems to be better behaved than the tri-motor of the Hummer. There are a lot of differences, but the Polestar is definitely the nicer on-road drive.

 

[LeoH]

If they told me I could keep my battery, delivery date and price, but will be getting a dual motor instead, I would have been totally ok with that to be honest. The quad motor setup does nothing for me as I am not going anywhere but regular streets. But I understand that is not the case for a lot of other people.

 

[John G.]

There is a lot of hysteria surrounding the first ~70k reservations, their pricing, and options, etc. One thing that has been glossed over by us reservation holders is this new Rivian pricing strategy and market positioning. I believe Rivian will excite shareholders with their announcement of lower tier models and options, paired with higher profitibility.

Attached is a chart comparing a few Rivian and Ford models that gives us an idea of where they are headed.
Q: Is the new R1T Dual Motor still a compelling sale vs the competition?
A: Yes - as you can see, customers that will be purchasing the new R1T dual motor are still getting a premium positioned product for the price.
I also included the Quad Motor pre March 1 pricing as reference.

What do you think, will Rivian's new pricing structure be a win in the long term? Is it still a good deal with 'only' 600 hp?

Wasn't the powered Tonneau worth $3,000 not shown here, also included in the original Adventure Package?

 

[goldburger]

The dual motor large battery is being quoted at 320+ miles by Rivian. While they certainly haven't finalized that, hence the +, I can't imagine they are going to suddenly find 80 more miles of range over their current estimates.

When I was driving it this week switching to conserve drive mode made it to dual motor-- just the front two-- and the mileage left indicator jumped like 40 miles IIRC.

 

[ERguy]

I love how you put "only 600 HP". As if that number is something to scoff at ?

I still think that the dual motor option is still a better deal than the Lightning, despite it having less torque. All of the features that come in the Adventure package, hell the Explorer package, still trumps what Ford offers. I had to spec out a top end trim Lightning to come close to what Rivian grants (and it was still missing features). Still, that list you just posted does give great insight on the matter. Thanks for taking the time to do this and putting it up

I get that the Rivian has some features Ford does not have, but those are mostly related to the off road purpose of the Rivian. Rivian doesn't even offer regular features like a garage door opener or Android Auto/Carplay. It also doesn't have as big of a bed or as big of a Frunk as the Ford. It also doesn't have the advanced trailering features which making hooking up and pulling trailers a breeze. The Ford also has hands free drier assistance software which the Rivian does not have. I'm pretty sure 99% of truck buyers use the bed/garage opener/Android Auto way more often than they would use the increased ground clearance, air suspension, etc that the Rivian offers.

Rivians are niche vehicles. They may have specific features that make them a better fit for you, but I think a lot of people (especially when you sample objective shoppers, not just people on a Rivian forum) would disagree with your assertion.

 

[astonius]

I get that the Rivian has some features Ford does not have, but those are mostly related to the off road purpose of the Rivian. Rivian doesn't even offer regular features like a garage door opener or Android Auto/Carplay. It also doesn't have as big of a bed or as big of a Frunk as the Ford. It also doesn't have the advanced trailering features which making hooking up and pulling trailers a breeze. The Ford also has hands free drier assistance software which the Rivian does not have. I'm pretty sure 99% of truck buyers use the bed/garage opener/Android Auto way more often than they would use the increased ground clearance, air suspension, etc that the Rivian offers.

Rivians are niche vehicles. They may have specific features that make them a better fit for you, but I think a lot of people (especially when you sample objective shoppers, not just people on a Rivian forum) would disagree with your assertion.

Dimensions aside, the hardware is present for the garage door opener, confirmed in the FCC filing. Rivian has stated it is coming in a software update. Also, Jason Cammisa stated in his Instagram review that CarPlay is coming, and he was told this by someone at Rivian. Of course Rivian has not confirmed this yet, but there is hope there. The trailering stuff may come later as well. The brake control integration in the steering wheel seems to work well.

 

[ERguy]

Dimensions aside, the hardware is present for the garage door opener, confirmed in the FCC filing. Rivian has stated it is coming in a software update. Also, Jason Cammisa stated in his Instagram review that CarPlay is coming, and he was told this by someone at Rivian. Of course Rivian has not confirmed this yet, but there is hope there. The trailering stuff may come later as well. The brake control integration in the steering wheel seems to work well.

Those are awfully big "ifs"

At this point those are all just internet rumors.

 

[SANZC02]

Those are awfully big "ifs"

At this point those are all just internet rumors.

Garage door opener was confirmed to me by the same UI engineer that explained the coming feature of tire pressure readouts when I was at Agua Dolce. I do not recall his name but nailed the tire pressure readouts that were out a few weeks

 

[astonius]

Those are awfully big "ifs"

At this point those are all just internet rumors.

Yeah, an FCC filing is an internet rumor… ?

 

[ERguy]

Yeah, an FCC filing is an internet rumor… ?

Are we even referring to the same thing? I'm taking about a physical button that can communicate by RFID with every mass produced garage door when within range.

Or are you referring to some sort of web based garage opener based on geofencing.

I would love to read the exact quote in the FCC filing you are referring to. Do you have it handy?

And Android Auto... That's in the FCC filing? Or was that part still just internet rumor? When I asked CS, they said there were no plans to add it.

 

[astonius]

Are we even referring to the same thing? I'm taking about a physical button that can communicate by RFID with every mass produced garage door when within range.

Or are you referring to some sort of web based garage opener based on geofencing.

I would love to read the exact quote in the FCC filing you are referring to. Do you have it handy?

And Android Auto... That's in the FCC filing? Or was that part still just internet rumor? When I asked CS, they said there were no plans to add it.

It's not a physical button, but it is RF: https://www.rivianforums.com/forum/...ntrol-module-stops-by-the-fcc.1606/post-99496. The model listed is a Chamberlain unit that can be controlled via a touch screen.

The CP/AA "rumor" is a bit more than that. It's a journalist affirming multiple times he was told that directly from Rivian. Of course I want confirmation from Rivian too, but it's a step above some random forum member saying they heard it was coming from a CS agent.

 

[Rivian_Hugh_III]

When I was driving it this week switching to conserve drive mode made it to dual motor-- just the front two-- and the mileage left indicator jumped like 40 miles IIRC.

Maybe Conserve mode on the dual-motor will use just one motor. They‘ll find some battery savings there.

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