Vice article on e-guzzlers

[Nermal]

This article came up in my Apple News feed. I don’t have an opinion about Vice’s or the writer’s objectivity.

https://www.vice.com/en/article/3ab...batteries-in-the-world-to-power-our-huge-cars

Rivian is squarely in the author’s crosshairs. What’s curious is that M3 and MY are his baselines. Why not Chevy Bolt or Nissan Leaf that, I think, use even smaller batteries?

If one’s only use case for their truck is to carry 4 adults or less and some belongings, Rivian, Lightning, Silverado and Cybertruck are overkill and his argument of inefficient use of scarce resources has some merit. And I grant that, ICE or Electric, trucks are often grossly underutilized.

The author doesn’t factor into the article that each of these companies are trying to swing a base to electric and need a higher margin option to get the ball rolling. He simply dismisses anything not M3 or MY as wasteful. No one, including Tesla, did this by releasing econo model first. Even Tesla bailed on what would have been their cheapest M3. Speaking of Leaf, look where Nissan is in their transition compared with competitors. BTW, R1T has the highest e-mpg of any of the truck examples he uses. How about a little credit for that?

I replaced a truck that got 19mpg on a good day. I often did things with it that a sedan or crossover, including M3 or MY, couldn’t do. I have similar tasks and more planned for my R1T. The point is that the automotive world is and will be more than just people and grocery movers for a wide variety of reasons. Electric trucks, even if a truck is just a market’s preference without a real need for many, should get some credit for a step in the right direction. We do need to address the scarcity of the resources that make up batteries but the market needs to be convinced that electric is not only capable of being cleaner but actually as capable as , more fun and, yes, potentially more luxurious than their ICE counterparts.

I intentionally omitted eHummer comparison. Hummers, e or otherwise, are IMO just obnoxious and good at a very limited set of things that very few people do. Author can rail on those all day This will not be the first call out of needs for battery resource “efficiency” so I expect we’ll need to be prepared to defend our Rivians.

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[Davethadog]

Seems like this guy took an Econ 101 class and now wants to write about it. The thing is that batteries aren’t a resource, they’re a commodity made of resources, some of which are rare and some of which are massively plentiful. Anyone else who sat in his 101 class would remember the part about innovation being a key resource to meet commodity output. I’d place my worries there.

All economics aside, the earth is doomed and humanity is totally unprepared to be a good steward of it anyways. The best we can hope for us a massive plague to be unleashed from the thermal trenches of a lithium geyser. In the mean time I’ll replace my 12mpg truck with something that has a fraction of the carbon footprint.

 

[Dark-Fx]

There's not enough cars in the world for everyone who needs one... That's why we are making more cars. Dumb article, dumb premise.

 

[VHRivian]

This article is, in-general, correct that the current Rivian vehicles are less efficient than they could be. I think the point made in the OP that most will be replacing VERY inefficient gas vehicles (not a Model 3 or Model Y) is an important one.

This may not be a popular feeling on this forum, but I am buying an R1S because it is the quickest vehicle I can afford that can carry my family and all our stuff. I don't care much that it isn't the most efficient use of resources. I will charge it at home 99% of the time with excess solar production so essentially I can exceed the performance of the V8 muscle car I got rid of with more space/comfort and with zero fuel costs. The rest doesn't bother me.

Fun EVs will increase adoption and get us to lower carbon emissions in the long-term. Even if I am being selfish with my purchase reasoning, it is still going to get more people interested that would have never considered an EV before.

 

[manitou202]

People aren't going to trade in their truck or 3-row SUV for a Model 3. So if they are moving from a vehicle that gets <20mpg and buying a Rivian, I'm very confident it has a positive impact on green house gas reduction.

My Rivian will be primarily charged using the solar panels on my roof. I'm pretty sure that's better than our old Audi Q7 TDI.

There is an argument to be made that everyone should move to smaller vehicles in general. Very few people need a Suburban or a full-size pickup truck, but it's a hard sell. Any EV has a positive impact compared to it's ICE equivalent, and this will only continue to get better over time as efficiency and battery technology improve along with adding more renewable energy.

We've got to start somewhere.

 

[r1t_kev]

Seems like this guy took an Econ 101 class and now wants to write about it.

He must have slept through Philososphy 101 or he would have known that "perfect is the enemy of good". Progress isn't linear and it needs to start somewhere ?‍

 

[CommodoreAmiga]

If a Tesla Model 3 would meet my needs, I would have bought one already. I came damn close several times (Model Y, but still). The fact is that the R1T should actually meet my needs and it's more efficient than what I'm driving, now... So how exactly is that bad?

 

[lostpacket]

Look at the article this guy wrote the day before....
https://www.vice.com/en/article/xgd...l-fuel-gas-station-now-runs-on-electric-power

 

[zipzag]

Now I feel bad trading the Model Y for an R1T.

I will also bet that the Model Y is the single most traded vehicle for the R1T/S.

 

[r1t_kev]

Now I feel bad trading the Model Y for an R1T.

I will also bet that the Model Y is the single most traded vehicle for the R1T/S.

I'd take that bet. One of Rivian's big brags is attracting folks who weren't previously considering an EV, myself included. This will be my first EV. There's no other EV available that fits what I like to do and is attractive to me.

If the R1T didn't exist, I'd be buying a Tacoma or Frontier, not some other EV.

 

[zefram47]

Lol. Newsflash...larger, heavier vehicles are less efficient, news at 10! As I'm sure a few have already mentioned, EV pickups/SUVs will still be at least 3x as efficient as their ICE equivalents just from an energy conversion perspective. Where they obviously still lose out is in energy density vs liquid fuels. The Hummer is certainly the extreme at the moment for inefficient EVs, but it wasn't designed with efficiency in mind either...very on-brand for Hummer. We'll have to see how the F-150 Lightning actually does in reality before making any sweeping statements about Rivian's relative efficiency. It'll certainly pain me to lose my 4 mi/kWh efficiency of my MINI when I get the Rivian, but I'll also be replacing two vehicles for one, so it balances out a bit...especially as one of them averages 15-17 mpg.

 

[Nermal]

There is an argument to be made that everyone should move to smaller vehicles in general.

Agreed. An argument (or even a plea) to be made for all of us to live... smaller, less impact, etc. for homes, cars, businesses, etc. I feel like most electrification efforts are helping us move in that direction, even if still catering to some of our desires for not just enough but more than enough. As proven by earlier entrants, purpose built to be better for the planet while sacrificing some amenities (and looks) didn't swing enough buyers.

Some time ago, I bought all-electric (Ego Power Plus) yard equipment not because it was electric (most prior attempts from traditional makers were ICE conversions that sucked) but because they were better tools for my purposes. Less impactful was an important justification to buy a better (and more expensive) option. And here we are. I remember my first day with the lawn mower. A neighbors friend came over and upstaged me with their new Tesla - envious as hell, I was. I sent them a photo of my mower with its LED headlights on jokingly saying "Let's see your Model S mulch, buddy!"

 

[MountainBikeDude]

Can't wait to read his article about the Tesla Semi.

 

[zipzag]

I'd take that bet. One of Rivian's big brags is attracting folks who weren't previously considering an EV, myself included. This will be my first EV. There's no other EV available that fits what I like to do and is attractive to me.

If the R1T didn't exist, I'd be buying a Tacoma or Frontier, not some other EV.

I chose my wording carefully. I didn't argue that Model Y ownership is greater than non-EV ownership.

A lot of Tesla owners, perhaps most, are never buying the Cybertruck. Tesla's three row vehicles are small in back, and the Model X is now very expensive. Most Tesla owners would never buy a full size pickup. So Rivian is the natural next step.

The Model Y is far superior to anything Subaru sells. I would definitely consider another Outback if I could not drive EV.

 

[r1t_kev]

I chose my wording carefully. I didn't argue that Model Y ownership is greater than non-EV ownership.

Agreed, that wasn't my point either. Relative to the broader market, I would wager 10 compass bucks that MY owners shopping an R1T/S are in the minority. Other than being an EV, they have little in common.

No reason to feel bad about trading your MY on an R1T - the R1T is way cooler and more useful, just less efficient!

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