When will R1 get Gen 3 hardware?

[Zorg]

800v is insignificant if the thermals aren’t managed better. My Gen1 R1T will hit 200+ for only a short time until the battery heats up and throttles the charge curve.

Absolutely. Gen3 needs power dense cells, 800V, much improved thermals and Lidar/RAP

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[922110]

Yes and also no. This is all completely doable without re-doing the whole vehicle.

Example - Volvo just updated the platform that the EX90 and Polestar 3 use to 800v. The vehicles remained identical. This was also done a year after the release of the EX90.

It is a significant update for sure but one well worth doing and they can keep the current R1 platform with some tweaks. The R1 still looks great and can stay relevant with some tweaks without doing a complete redesign.

It's a good point, an 800V architecture requires work but it's not some revolutionary ground up vehicle redesign. It's effectively upgraded electrical components, you can use the exact same batteries just wired more in series.

 

[922110]

We, yes, an 800V R2 max pack (or even just a max pack) would 100% pull me back into the R2 camp.

Sure it would be nice, but the electronics for an 800V add to the cost of the vehicle and the R2 is very much aimed at a more affordable price point. I'm sure it'll happen eventually as costs come down.

An interesting thing is a lot of the newer datacenters are switching to 800V DC supplies to reduce energy loses and the amount of copper wiring required. I wonder how much of this will help reduce the cost of components in car battery packs.

 

[Jeremy3292]

It's a good point, an 800V architecture requires work but it's not some revolutionary ground up vehicle redesign. It's effectively upgraded electrical components, you can use the exact same batteries just wired more in series.

800v would do very little for the current R1 battery packs in terms of charging speed. They have plate cooling/heating which is not good at all for DCFC. Need a thermal redesign also with ribbon cooling or something similar.

 

[922110]

Rivian can walk and chew the gum at the same time. They are clearly focused on doing a lot right now. No reason they can't be working on gen 3 R1 along with R2 variants and R3. They have ambitions and RJ is fully in support of it.

Wouldn't surprise me if we saw a significant update this year tbh we should be hearing shortly on the 2027 model as the change usually occurs in the summer time. With the LFP version being phased out of the R1, I'm sure we might get some updates on the R1 to not have it seem to aged compared to the R2 once configurators are both lives on the website.

I wouldn't hold my breath but honestly wouldn't be surprised. They have surprised us plenty of time before. In the meantime, we can just let our imagination run wild.

This was my point, a lot of the upgrade work has already been done for the R2. Drive computers, gen 2 heat pump, steering wheel etc, all of which should be close to drop in replacements for the R1. I don't see a huge model refresh, but it makes sense from a cost perspective to align your parts across the entire range.

The bigger questions I have, are will be include an updated 800V pack, perhaps even with newer cells maybe even from LG like the M58T. Generally the LG 4695 cells that are going into the R2 are NCMA chemistries which are slightly less performant than the best 21700 but make up for it with lower cost per mAh and denser pack level packaging.

Given the Rivian's pack is double stacked its very hard to swap out the cell size so without a major structural redesign its likely they will stick with 21700 cells.

 

[922110]

800v would do very little for the current R1 battery packs in terms of charging speed. They have plate cooling/heating which is not good at all for DCFC. Need a thermal redesign also with ribbon cooling or something similar.

While I agree they would need to change the pack cooling, it's incorrect to say the charging speeds would not improve much. The cells would be dealing with half the current and thus much lower resistive heating losses. If Rivian combined a newer 21700 cell like the LG M58T with a 800V pack they could absolutely push higher charging speeds within the same thermal envelope, just not as much as a full pack redesign with improved ribbon cooling.

 

[Jeremy3292]

While I agree they would need to change the pack cooling, it's incorrect to say the charging speeds would not improve much. The cells would be dealing with half the current and thus much lower resistive heating losses. If Rivian combined a newer 21700 cell like the LG M58T with a 800V pack they could absolutely push higher charging speeds within the same thermal envelope, just not as much as a full pack redesign with improved ribbon cooling.

Well now you're changing the cells lol. You originally said "you can use the exact same batteries." I was only commenting on the current pack

 

[TexasBob]

Sure it would be nice, but the electronics for an 800V add to the cost of the vehicle and the R2 is very much aimed at a more affordable price point. I'm sure it'll happen eventually as costs come down.

An interesting thing is a lot of the newer datacenters are switching to 800V DC supplies to reduce energy loses and the amount of copper wiring required. I wonder how much of this will help reduce the cost of components in car battery packs.

I mean BYD is able to do this on a $30,000 ATT03 and in fact they don't have an 800 volt they have a 1200 volt system My recollection is correct with not a 15 to 20 minute charge but a 5 to 7 minute charge. So I think rubian is not just one generation behind it is two generations behind on this but the entire US market is pretty far behind at this point so what can you say

 

[Zorg]

Better cooling needs to apply electronics, battery and motors. Yardstick should be the new Cayenne. 400KW sustained charging to achieve 15mns 10-80 is the new benchmark. That's what should be expected from a luxury SUV in 3-4 years when gen3 should be released

 

[Jeremy3292]

Better cooling needs to apply electronics, battery and motors. Yardstick should be the new Cayenne. 400KW sustained charging to achieve 15mns 10-80 is the new benchmark. That's what should be expected from a luxury SUV in 3-4 years when gen3 should be released

<15 min for 10-80% is the holy grail IMO. Once that becomes mainstream, more RAN stations, more IONNA stations, more Tesla V4 stations and EV's are looking really good.

I'm thinking around 2030 is that inflection point.

 

[ghostowl]

<15 min for 10-80% is the holy grail IMO. Once that becomes mainstream, more RAN stations, more IONNA stations, more Tesla V4 stations and EV's are looking really good.

They have that now in the latest chinese EVs from two different companies. So its really how long it takes that battery technology to make it to the USA. But I'm hopeful it'll be in the next EV I buy.

 

[Jeremy3292]

They have that now in the latest chinese EVs from two different companies. So its really how long it takes that battery technology to make it to the USA. But I'm hopeful it'll be in the next EV I buy.

Yes, correct. Mainstream in USA is what I'm speaking on. Not just some expensive Porsche or BMW or luxury brand.

 

[922110]

Well now you're changing the cells lol. You originally said "you can use the exact same batteries." I was only commenting on the current pack

Resistive heating losses are directly tied to the current being pushed in, with 800V you can use the exact same cells but deal with lower resistive heating, even at higher power levels. Switching to a new cell would likely see even bigger improvements was all I was saying. My point still stands that 800V would improve DC fast charging rates due to the drop in current.

 

[Hereforthesnacks]

Sure it would be nice, but the electronics for an 800V add to the cost of the vehicle and the R2 is very much aimed at a more affordable price point. I'm sure it'll happen eventually as costs come down.

An interesting thing is a lot of the newer datacenters are switching to 800V DC supplies to reduce energy loses and the amount of copper wiring required. I wonder how much of this will help reduce the cost of components in car battery packs.

Wouldn’t one rather have 800V and less “off road capabilities?”

 

[922110]

I mean BYD is able to do this on a $30,000 ATT03 and in fact they don't have an 800 volt they have a 1200 volt system My recollection is correct with not a 15 to 20 minute charge but a 5 to 7 minute charge. So I think rubian is not just one generation behind it is two generations behind on this but the entire US market is pretty far behind at this point so what can you say

True but BYD owns the entire stack from cells to vehicle and operate at huge scales with huge subsidies (their finances are pretty bad). The CCP/BYD/Geely etc are playing for market share, not profits, Rivian can't do that.

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