Why Gen1 doesn't show vehicles behind you

[pamalabama]

technically rivian did advertise functions that are not able to be delivered.

Tesla, with the exception of a small time in 2018 has never sold full self driving (what you can purchase) as a feature that would drive itself.

What FSD does now is more than most people ever paid for


However we will have to look at both of these companies in the future and see how this plays out

At least with gen 1, rivian advertised 360 coverage(which currently is not happening), auto lane change, and hands free.

Rivian actually lied to consumers by saying the interior camera in gen 1 was not suitable for driver monitoring. There is zero chance that Rivian overlooked a cabin camera placement as to not see a driver's eyes.

The actual rumor is that rivian does not have any way to compute eye tracking without using the CPU that runs the infotainment

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[JamboF4]

Not when the cars look like this on camera:

There are no blind spots, with properly used mirrors!

 

[Zoidz]

Rivian actually lied to consumers by saying the interior camera in gen 1 was not suitable for driver monitoring. There is zero chance that Rivian overlooked a cabin camera placement as to not see a driver's eyes.

The actual rumor is that rivian does not have any way to compute eye tracking without using the CPU that runs the infotainment

Stop making up drama to suit your narrative. If the camera does not have built-in tracking capability and they screwed up by assuming it could be done with compute, that does not change the fact that the camera is not suitable for driver monitoring.

How is that a lie?

 

[pamalabama]

Stop making up drama to suit your narrative. If the camera does not have built-in tracking capability and they screwed up by assuming it could be done with compute, that does not change the fact that the camera is not suitable for driver monitoring.

How is that a lie?

cameras do not have built in tracking capability. That's not how this works.

The camera IS suitable for driver monitoring.

Rivian screwed up in that they have no way to compute eye tracking in an efficient way.

 

[Zoidz]

cameras do not have built in tracking capability. That's not how this works.

Cameras do have built in tracking capability.

Face tracking hardware packages for OEMs have been available for years. Companies such as Visage provide the tech to automobile manufacturers. Packages are available today at the hobbyist level that can be trained for face/eye/person tracking capability, i.e. the NVidia Jetson Nano coupled with any camera is one example I am familiar with. At the industrial level, I've worked with Cognex image recognition cameras for over 15 years to do in-motion container seal visual inspection and randomly oriented barcode scanning. They can be trained to a face just as we trained them for a foil seal inspection on an infant formula package. Unless you can document otherwise, it's entirely possible that Rivian attempted to use such a technology in the cabin and failed.

$75 hobbyist/experimenter camera

 

[godfodder0901]

cameras do not have built in tracking capability. That's not how this works.

The camera IS suitable for driver monitoring.

Rivian screwed up in that they have no way to compute eye tracking in an efficient way.

In the early days of RiDE, they exposed the 'eye gaze' data. It tracked my eyes really well, and the infotainment didn't suffer at all.

 

[pamalabama]

Cameras do have built in tracking capability.

Face tracking hardware packages for OEMs have been available for years. Companies such as Visage provide the tech to automobile manufacturers. Packages are available today at the hobbyist level that can be trained for face/eye/person tracking capability, i.e. the NVidia Jetson Nano coupled with any camera is one example I am familiar with. At the industrial level, I've worked with Cognex image recognition cameras for over 15 years to do in-motion container seal visual inspection and randomly oriented barcode scanning. They can be trained to a face just as we trained them for a foil seal inspection on an infant formula package. Unless you can document otherwise, it's entirely possible that Rivian attempted to use such a technology in the cabin and failed.

$75 hobbyist/experimenter camera

those are expensive solutions.

Rivian took the cheap solution like tesla and put in a general purpose cabin camera.

The rumor is that the eye tracking compute was going to run off the infotainment CPU

 

[mpshizzle]

In the early days of RiDE, they exposed the 'eye gaze' data. It tracked my eyes really well, and the infotainment didn't suffer at all.

That's interesting. I didn't know that! I wonder why they eventually decided it wouldn't work? Maybe it suffered in low light conditions and/or accuracy?

 

[godfodder0901]

That's interesting. I didn't know that! I wonder why they eventually decided it wouldn't work? Maybe it suffered in low light conditions and/or accuracy?

That was my guess. Worked great in normal lighting as long as I didn't have sunglasses on.

 

[Zoidz]

those are expensive solutions.

Rivian took the cheap solution like tesla and put in a general purpose cabin camera.

The rumor is that the eye tracking compute was going to run off the infotainment CPU

I thought you said tracking cameras didn't exist? A $75 retail ML AI camera package is $20 OEM cost. That's not expensive.

As I suspected, you have no proof or substantiation of your claim. Speaking of rumors, it's rumored that Big Foot or it's eqivalent wanders six continents of the planet, so it must be true, right?

 

[pamalabama]

I thought you said tracking cameras didn't exist? A $75 retail ML AI camera package is $20 OEM cost. That's not expensive.

As I suspected, you have no proof or substantiation of your claim. Speaking of rumors, it's rumored that Big Foot or it's eqivalent wanders six continents of the planet, so it must be true, right?

the point is it's not a part that vertically integrated companies use

 

[pamalabama]

In the early days of RiDE, they exposed the 'eye gaze' data. It tracked my eyes really well, and the infotainment didn't suffer at all.

if that were the case then rivian could at least do hands free driving during the day.

i suspect that working in a service menu is not the same thing as working while the autopilot visualizations are running, satellite map navigation is being displayed, 3 screens are being powered all at the same time

To give you an idea how much room tesla still has, you can run some pretty demanding games on the rear passenger screen while running FSD and satellite navigation all at once

 

[mpshizzle]

if that were the case then rivian could at least do hands free driving during the day.

i suspect that working in a service menu is not the same thing as working while the autopilot visualizations are running, satellite map navigation is being displayed, 3 screens are being powered all at the same time

To give you an idea how much room tesla still has, you can run some pretty demanding games on the rear passenger screen while running FSD and satellite navigation all at once

The rivian infotainment computer is completely separate from the autonomy computer. In the case of gen 1, autonomy is handled entirely with Mobile Eye, and sensor inputs (like blind spot and parking sensors) are handled with individual electronic control units . In gen 2, rather than relying entirely on mobile eye (which it still has), all of the sensor inputs and camera inputs (including the interior camera) are fed into the autonomy computer. This autonomy computer runs all of the safety and autonomy systems.

The only involvement that the infotainment computer has with any of that is displaying the data that is provided by the autonomy systems (mobile eye, and rivian autonomy computer). In fact, their ahead of electrical engineering has confirmed that the infotainment computer between the two generations is nearly identical, using the same processor and everything. So Gen 2 does not have any more infotainment processing power than gen 1. The difference is in the autonomy computer/mobile eye

The reason that RJ and Wassym have stated on multiple occasions that they are moving to their own platform for Gen 2 autonomy is that mobile eye is too locked down for them to add the functionality that they hoped to add. In the case of gen 1, the interior camera was clearly not good enough. Whether that's because the camera did not perform well enough in low light, or the mobile eye system was not capable of taking in that data we don't know. All we know is that some part of that pipeline was not up to the standard that Rivian was hoping for. Same thing with the 360° visualizations. Some part of the integration with the mobile eye system was not possible. So it's not that rivian is lying about gen 1 being incapable of these functions. The hardware is literally not there.

In the case of gen 2, the autonomy computer is taking in far more data than Tesla is. Between the suite of sensors camera the higher number and resolution of cameras etc... but the extra hardware really doesn't matter. Tesla is still doing much better because of their software. Their machine learning has a huge leg up on training data and it shows.

 

[godfodder0901]

if that were the case then rivian could at least do hands free driving during the day.

i suspect that working in a service menu is not the same thing as working while the autopilot visualizations are running, satellite map navigation is being displayed, 3 screens are being powered all at the same time

To give you an idea how much room tesla still has, you can run some pretty demanding games on the rear passenger screen while running FSD and satellite navigation all at once

This was all done while driving, with full vehicle visualizations running. And maps. And music. It ran all the time in all the vehicles that had cameras.

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