Friend bought ModelY after keeping R1S for a day, and after learning about R2

[SwampNut]

Interstates for sure but long drives on backroads or the old numbered highways is also important.

Some of us, spending significant time on streets, also think that it's important to have basic lane keeping and speed management there. There's no reason a 2018 Kia should have more ADAS than our Rivians.

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[Jeremy3292]

Some of us, spending significant time on streets, also think that it's important to have basic lane keeping and speed management there. There's no reason a 2018 Kia should have more ADAS than our Rivians.

Sure but then that's really just FSD. Autopilot and EAP were only meant for interstates. The original convo was about the fact that having good ADAS for road trips is important and "most people" are fine without full FSD then. If we go in the discussion from interstates, to US numbered highways, to backroads, then to city streets - that's not ADAS anymore. That's FSD.

 

[SwampNut]

Autopilot and EAP were only meant for interstates.

I've got tens of thousands of miles of AP on streets, and a few hundred of EAP on streets. It was excellent. I have no idea how to address "meant for" but I don't believe you, and the evidence is clear that it works.

then to city streets - that's not ADAS anymore. That's FSD.

Absolutely false. I've driven a lot of ADAS on city streets, many brands.

 

[Jeremy3292]

I've got tens of thousands of miles of AP on streets, and a few hundred of EAP on streets. It was excellent. I have no idea how to address "meant for" but I don't believe you, and the evidence is clear that it works.



Absolutely false. I've driven a lot of ADAS on city streets, many brands.

Tesla Autopilot and EAP don't stop at stop signs and can't read stoplights. So how do you use it on city streets? I guess I'm confused what this argument is even about at this point bc I was simply agreeing with another users comment...

 

[macb00kemdanno]

I hear a lot of mention how FSD on Tesla really help with long drives...but for those long stretches, I don't find that you need FSD. Any of the many cars equipped with lane maintain and traffic aware cruise control can pretty much do the same for free. We've done many road trips in both our Model 3 (autopilot) and R1T and the long stretches were handled just fine...

So this may be an unpopular opinion, but in my mind, if that's the main reason you want FSD, I think you'd be just as happy saving the money and using a more basic system that's free.

But each person is different. My sister-in-law almost always drives with FSD. I don't have the patience for it, and for local driving, I actually prefer driving myself. So I get that some people just want to not bother driving and let FSD do most of their driving now. I'm just not one of those people...when I drive, I'm just focused on the driving aspect and enjoying it. I don't even listen to music...lol

Autopilot doesn't change lanes for you IIRC, unless you pay for Enhanced Autopilot... You have to disengage it to change lanes, and then reenable it. So if you come up behind slow pokes, it will just slow down and ride their ass until you disengage, signal, and then reengage. Rinse and repeat. Correct me if I'm wrong on that -- it's been a while since I've used basic Autopilot. With that said, I use it just about wherever I can.

Not to mention Autopilot can't do highway interchanges, move over for merging traffic, take exits, etc. And of course, it can't handle navigating city streets, stop signs, roundabouts, stop lights, etc.

Correct me if I'm wrong on that -- it's been a while since I've used basic Autopilot. With that said, I use it just about wherever I can. Pulls out of my garage/driveway, and just drives me anywhere, then drops me right back off in my driveway when it's done. Damn thing even backs into a Supercharger stall when I'm roadtripping.

But as you said, different strokes for different folks.

Since November (when I got the latest trial -- I've been paying for it since January):

 

[SwampNut]

Tesla Autopilot and EAP don't stop at stop signs and can't read stoplights. So how do you use it on city streets?

What??? I'm totally confused on what you've assumed that "remove 98% of the workload means" or how any of these systems work. If there's a car in front of you, AP, Comma, Toyota/Honda/everyone stops for the car. If you come to a light without a car in front of you...you press the brake. Then you either hit resume if the car has it or accelerate to speed and re-engage ADAS/AP/whatever. The majority of the time of course there will be a car, just statistically speaking. Especially in the situations where this is most useful; medium to heavy traffic.

until you disengage, signal, and then reengage. Rinse and repeat.

So much stuff posted here that shows a lack of knowledge, and too many assumptions. AP gets cancelled when you signal, and you can then re-engage. If you feel like changing without a signal, just turn the wheel. Yes, there's a big difference between "disengage-signal-re-engage and having it just disengage with a signal. Again, I've done 30k++ miles using this.

 

[Jeremy3292]

What??? I'm totally confused on what you've assumed that "remove 98% of the workload means" or how any of these systems work. If there's a car in front of you, AP, Comma, Toyota/Honda/everyone stops for the car. If you come to a light without a car in front of you...you press the brake. Then you either hit resume if the car has it or accelerate to speed and re-engage ADAS/AP/whatever. The majority of the time of course there will be a car, just statistically speaking. Especially in the situations where this is most useful; medium to heavy traffic.

You and I simply disagree on workload then. Using autopilot anywhere that has stop lights and stop signs is ridiculously annoying and makes the workload harder, not easier. It does not work well on any slightly sharp turns and is locked to 5mph over the speed limit anywhere not on an interstate. Constantly disengaging and reengaging every minute is insane. If you like it then more power to you, but this discussion has divulged into something I wasn't even referencing or talking about.

 

[SwampNut]

Using autopilot anywhere that has stop lights and stop signs is ridiculously annoying and makes the workload harder, not easier.

LOL what? Ok, stop signs sure. I never use it then. Stop lights? Tens of thousands of miles where I don't touch anything because there are cars to make it stop at lights. Nearly every light.

It does not work well on any slightly sharp turns

False.

locked to 5mph over the speed limit anywhere not on an interstate.

That's why my wife wouldn't use it, I was fine with that limit.

Constantly disengaging and reengaging every minute is insane.

That would be very insane if it worked that way, but it doesn't.

 

[phaduman]

passionate discussions, I am sure some not owning either platforms are benefiting from the knowledge.

Current Rivian ADAS works like Tesla's AP/EAP (without FSD), does not recognize traffic lights e.g. so I HAVE TO be ready to intervene. And I don't like that - because I am used to how Tesla FSD works (detects all that), and so when I am on the R1T, I don't use it for regular streets. I love it on the freeways, where it does a great job following in-lane, and upon activating a turn signal, it does a great job merging when right (gen2 with subscription/$2.5K-onetime) and stays active. I chose to pay the $2.5K onetime.

 

[Dave Cundiff]

Stop lights? Tens of thousands of miles where I don't touch anything because there are cars to make it stop at lights. Nearly every light.

Did I just read what I think I read, @SwampNut?

You don't need to pay attention at stop lights because you can trust that others are paying attention?

What if two or more people in front of you are all making the same assumption? Sounds deadly....

Best wishes!

 

[SwampNut]

Did I just read what I think I read

No, you made something up that was not said or implied.

 

[Dave Cundiff]

No, you made something up that was not said or implied.

That's a relief! Thanks for responding!

 

[windblowlc]

Stop lights? Tens of thousands of miles where I don't touch anything because there are cars to make it stop at lights. Nearly every light.

So what if the car just in front of you decided to run through the about to turn redl ight instead of stopping? What would happen if you don't touch anything? Are you going to run the red light and hope for the best?

 

[SwampNut]

So what if the car just in front of you decided to run through the about to turn redl ight instead of stopping?

I can't believe I have to say this, but, you would...press the brake. Hardship I know, the car should just handle 100% of everything. For 98% of driving, it works hands/feet free. Not always. I wish I'd said that. Wait...

 

[Dave Cundiff]

Someone has to be the first in the line to realize that (1) the light is yellow and (2) they have room to stop before entering the intersection. Then to actually stop. That can be anyone, in any place in the line.

As a motorcyclist, I bet @SwampNut is often the first to stop for a yellow/red light. We are all safest when we are all ready to do the same.

Anything that encourages us to depend on others' behavior for our own and others' safety (e.g., to decide how to handle traffic lights) degrades everyone's safety. Maybe by a little, maybe by a lot.

Best to all!

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