Hello, from a Ford Bronco Reject

[paariv]

I cannot write for @Ron S, but I think that it is reasonable to say that Rivian are doing everything they can to get you your R1T as soon as they feel confident that they are delivering a quality product free from known defects. While I don’t know what’s going on inside Rivian, it seems like there are two issues which are frustrating people: low production numbers and most of that production volume going to employees.

If there are low production numbers due to supply chain issues and/or because they are working out issues with process or component design issues then they are going as fast as they can.

If they are prioritizing deliveries to employees because of known component design issues and/or for validation as they continue to tweak processes or test redesigned parts (tonneau cover 2.0?) then they are going as fast as they can to deliver a quality product free from known defects.

If these aren’t the issues behind what’s frustrating long-time reservation-holders then what is? “The only reason Rivian isn’t delivering to 3rd party customers is because they are conspiring to annoy reservation-holders and concern investors by throttling output and delaying deliveries in a passive-aggressive power play.” doesn’t sound rational to me.

There’s a third thing that angers people: Rivian falsely claiming R1Ts are customer-ready when they plainly are not. I bet this is why “customer” deliveries are practically nonexistent.

If Rivian were honest about why they aren’t really delivering to regular customers some 5 months after “production” began (there must be some quality issue driving this decision) then they would earn back a lot of goodwill.

We all get that this takes time, and that a new car from a new company won’t just immediately be perfect. I do think Rivian is doing its best to start real deliveries. But Rivian isn’t talking about the final quality challenges that are delaying things. Instead, they say that they’re building our cars, and even they claim to be delivering them (carefully omitting discussion of volume). But they are not actually delivering them!

This dishonesty (and this practice is dishonest, even if each statement Rivian makes is factual) is galling. And at some point it could be the basis for a pretty solid securities fraud suit. I’ve defended, and (my clients have) paid substantial money to settle cases based on much flimsier evidence of dishonesty.

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[Ralph]

There’s a third thing that angers people: Rivian falsely claiming R1Ts are customer-ready when they plainly are not. I bet this is why “customer” deliveries are practically nonexistent.

Snip....

Would you mind explaining how is we know R1Ts are "plainly not" ready for customers? And that this is the reason customers are not receiving vehicles? I have not read every post on the forum or even on this thread so I may have missed the evidence of that.

 

[paariv]

Would you mind explaining how is we know R1Ts are "plainly not" ready for customers? And that this is the reason customers are not receiving vehicles? I have not read every post on the forum or even on this thread so I may have missed the evidence of that.

It’s the most obvious logical conclusion to draw from Rivian’s failure to deliver more than a handful of vehicles to true third parties.

As noted, it would be irrational to piss off customers by arbitrarily and without a public explanation delaying Rivian’s own delivery timelines in favor of new hires (it’s not that hard to attract employees to a hot new company flush with cash), unless they are having trouble manufacturing vehicles of acceptable quality. My bet is that Rivian is very close to hitting this quality level - which is why they haven’t officially delayed anything - but can’t quite get there, so never ends up scheduling deliveries to non-employees once the trucks roll off the line.

We’ll never get an admission of this from Rivian of course, but it fits the observed facts better than any other theories I can come up with.

 

[mgc0216]

It’s the most obvious logical conclusion to draw from Rivian’s failure to deliver more than a handful of vehicles to true third parties..

Is it the most logical conclusion?

As you admit they have delivered to a handful of real customers (e.g. non-affiliated) so they production quality seems to be there (unless you think they're delivering substandard vehicles to "real" customers - which doesn't seem logical at all)

I that case, I find it more logical to say that they are consciously prioritizing employee deliveries over customers as a way of attracting and retaining new employees in a hyper competitive job market.

I am going to buy one truck in the next 6 or 7 years, and sure they'll gain revenue membership from me because I'm a sucker like that. And, of course there is word of mouth goodwill. But, with 70,000 of me in line and not being able to satisfy that backlog for at least two years they have the power in this relationship.

On the other hand, I want a top engineer to work on some system. There are fewer of those floating around, and oh by the way, everyone wants to hire them. And, oh by the way, all companies offer roughly the same comp packages based on where they sit in the market for talent. So what does Rivian offer that no other company can - access to a brand new vehicle with a nice subsidy. That's a pretty good carrot for some folks and all other things being equal might push them to take the Rivian offer.

Of course, none of us know the right answer, so all we can offer our opinions on what the "most logical conclusion" might be.

 

[SoCal Rob]

As you admit they have delivered to a handful of real customers (e.g. non-affiliated) so they production quality seems to be there (unless you think they're delivering substandard vehicles to "real" customers - which doesn't seem logical at all)

My guess is that they delivered to some 3rd party customers and then had to make repairs or modifications to an unacceptably large percentage of power tonneau covers. I think even @Iwantatesla had a tonneau repair? If that’s the case then pulling back on 3rd party deliveries in favor of more controlled (and controllable?) employee deliveries would make sense. Once satisfied with the revised product in real world conditions they will probably begin 3rd party deliveries again. Hopefully in greater numbers. MUCH greater numbers.

 

[r1t_kev]

Is it the most logical conclusion?

As you admit they have delivered to a handful of real customers (e.g. non-affiliated) so they production quality seems to be there (unless you think they're delivering substandard vehicles to "real" customers - which doesn't seem logical at all)

I that case, I find it more logical to say that they are consciously prioritizing employee deliveries over customers as a way of attracting and retaining new employees in a hyper competitive job market.

I am going to buy one truck in the next 6 or 7 years, and sure they'll gain revenue membership from me because I'm a sucker like that. And, of course there is word of mouth goodwill. But, with 70,000 of me in line and not being able to satisfy that backlog for at least two years they have the power in this relationship.

On the other hand, I want a top engineer to work on some system. There are fewer of those floating around, and oh by the way, everyone wants to hire them. And, oh by the way, all companies offer roughly the same comp packages based on where they sit in the market for talent. So what does Rivian offer that no other company can - access to a brand new vehicle with a nice subsidy. That's a pretty good carrot for some folks and all other things being equal might push them to take the Rivian offer.

Of course, none of us know the right answer, so all we can offer our opinions on what the "most logical conclusion" might be.

Nailed it - and it's often espoused as appalling and labelled as mismanagement. I can see why people don't like being cut in line for their new truck, but this isn't a bad business strategy. Take care of your employees so they take care of your business, amiright?

 

[Iwantatesla]

My guess is that they delivered to some 3rd party customers and then had to make repairs or modifications to an unacceptably large percentage of power tonneau covers. I think even @Iwantatesla had a tonneau repair? If that’s the case then pulling back on 3rd party deliveries in favor of more controlled (and controllable?) employee deliveries would make sense. Once satisfied with the revised product in real world conditions they will probably begin 3rd party deliveries again. Hopefully in greater numbers. MUCH greater numbers.

I did but I found out what they did. It was an adjustment no parts needed. It's been working stellar since

 

[jsharpe]

The sticking point here is:

Some folks who have waited 3+ years with January/February estimated delivery have been bumped to March, while the new programmer Deborah got one after being with Rivian 3 months.

Tell me, if Ford said "sorry, supply challenges, our dog ate our homework, etc etc" but then delivered a Bronco to a fella who's been there for a few months, how would you feel?

As another soon to be ex-Bronco fan this sounds very familiar. Recent walk-in Bronco orders getting assigned a VIN and build date for exactly the same build as someone who had an early reservation and ordered more than a year ago. Nothing wrong with that as far as Ford is concerned. Except people like me are spending a lot more time here. Ford supposedly won't build my order for a 2021 until 2024/5. So getting a Rivian in '23 seems like win.

 

[crashmtb]

I did but I found out what they did. It was an adjustment no parts needed. It's been working stellar since

What’d they adjust?

 

[Iwantatesla]

What’d they adjust?

Angle/spacing of the slats. really hard to come across in photos.

 

[crashmtb]

Angle/spacing of the slats. really hard to come across in photos.

Interesting ?
tangental follow up, do you get a copy of a work order like with a “regular” vehicle repair, or is it just “we fixed it!”

 

[Iwantatesla]

Interesting ?
tangental follow up, do you get a copy of a work order like with a “regular” vehicle repair, or is it just “we fixed it!”

yes I do! But the problem is the stuff has been so minor it’s usually like DIAGNOSE AND CORRECT

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