Stupid previous owner = $$$ L2 installation

[Mos Eisley]

I'm not opposed to an EV charge to offset the gas tax, but there's a big difference between paying a few pennies at the pump and one lump sum.

Anyway- Had another electrician visit this morning; good conversation, he's personally a fan of Rivian, his wife has had three Teslas and he's a big fan of Emporia chargers. Estimate coming later today.

Much more reasonable. Probably $2500 all in.

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[TXSchnee]

If it was a plug, change it out for a hardwired connection.... NEMA 14-50 plugs will eventually fail under continuous load.

I have a 7 year old Siemens EVSE that is NEMA 6-50 plug, charged 2 Cayenne PHEVS, my Taycan, 2 XM PHEVS with zero issue. It only draws 32 amps, but why the assumption that a plug in EVSE will ultimately fail? Currently also using a NEMA 6-50 plug ChargePoint on both my G580 and R1S, it is 4 years old (also did some of the charging on my Taycan and iX).

 

[beatle]

When charging at 32A you're only down 20% from 40A, but that amperage drop cuts the amount of heat at the receptacle by 36%. That decrease in heat really helps extend the life of a receptacle. I charged my Model S at 40A on a 14-50 with a gen1 Tesla UMC, and I melted my receptacle (on 6awg copper) in under 2 1/2 years.

Also, a lot of that charging was for PHEVs which have tiny batteries compared to a full-fat EV that may drink a lot more if you're using it to drive more than a few dozen miles a day. Check your terminals' temperature after a few hours of charging your Rivian - they may need to be retorqued (with a torque driver).

 

[Weck]

When charging at 32A you're only down 20% from 40A, but that amperage drop cuts the amount of heat at the receptacle by 36%. That decrease in heat really helps extend the life of a receptacle. I charged my Model S at 40A on a 14-50 with a gen1 Tesla UMC, and I melted my receptacle (on 6awg copper) in under 2 1/2 years.

Also, a lot of that charging was for PHEVs which have tiny batteries compared to a full-fat EV that may drink a lot more if you're using it to drive more than a few dozen miles a day. Check your terminals' temperature after a few hours of charging your Rivian - they may need to be retorqued (with a torque driver).

My big box store run of the mill legrande 14-50 showed zero signs of any degradation after 2 years with my Energica, followed by 18 months cranking at 40 amps with the Rivian. I did just swap it out with a heavy duty one recently, that has actual hex head terminals you torque to 75 in-lbs, just for piece of mind, however technically a 14-50 is rated for that load continuous. I did open up the old one about annually to check the torque and never found it loose at all. Temperature wise, I've never seen the recepticle running any hotter than the breaker in the panel, usually around 135-140 F using an infrared imaging camera. FWIW.

 

[beatle]

Okay, this is what they look like when they fail:

Check the terminals at your breaker as well. Once I replaced the receptacle, the breaker started to trip due to heat, and I found one of the terminals had loosened. I replaced the 14-50 with a Tesla UWC which has been fine for over 2 years.

 

[mkhuffman]

... I did open up the old one about annually to check the torque and never found it loose at all. ...

That is probably why you never had an issue.

It is very rare for a homeowner to open a outlet and retighten the wire connections. In fact, I suspect 99.9% don't do it. And then the outlet melts, or worse.

 

[HaveBlue]

To have some random person say you need this or that size panel is a disservice. Without doing a load calculation on the panel, there is no way properly advise on what is possible. My 100 year old 3bed 2 bath has a 100A (modern) panel and been charging for years at 40A. Also have installed EV rated outlets on rental units that have from 100A down to 50A panels including hardwired shared EVSE's on house panels. Sometimes only a 14-30 at 24A is feasible but it is still sufficient for over night charging of a passenger vehicle. Most tenants drive Teslas where the correct adapter is available or they have lessor vehicles like a Volt that only draws 16A anyway using a 14-xx universal plug.

 

[Kaiju]

I'd say $2500 is a good price.

Though I'll mention for the people hating on 14-50 plugs that the enemy there is the quality of the plug and the quality of the install. Hardwired chargers also have screw terminals inside that have to be torqued, so do breaker panels and sub-panels. Those can get fuxed up during install and cause the same problem. A plug is one extra connection, sure, but you can do both things right. A key difference between a cheap 14-50 and a good one is the type of terminals they have. It is rather vital not to use the home depot special and get the chonkier hubbell or bryant ones that have the hex screws that you (or your electrician) can torque properly. Much easier to do than the ones with the philips screws. It also helps if you use wire that's one gauge bigger than the minimum. More copper and more contact means it doesn't get as hot.

If you ever want to illustrate the difference just look at a leviton and a hubbell one from the side. Here:

 

[Dark-Fx]

. Much easier to do than the ones with the philips screws

You should use robertson drivers on the leviton type. Much easier to get and keep the proper torque without the driver camming out.

 

[Zoidz]

If it was a plug, change it out for a hardwired connection.... NEMA 14-50 plugs will eventually fail under continuous load.

You are greatly overgeneralizing the failure of NEMA plugs. The single biggest issue is using a $35 - $50 crap 14-50 from Amazon, Lowe's or Home Depot - even if it is branded Leviton and says "EV" rated on it. Junk. A Hubbell 9450 costs $75 - $100 for a reason and will outlast the EV.

 

[mkhuffman]

You are greatly overgeneralizing the failure of NEMA plugs. The single biggest issue is using a $35 - $50 crap 14-50 from Amazon, Lowe's or Home Depot - even if it is branded Leviton and says "EV" rated on it. Junk. A Hubbell 9450 costs $75 - $100 for a reason and will outlast the EV.

Your advice is good, as definitely industrial outlets like the one made by Hubbell are more robust than the cheap 14-50 outlets sold at Home Depot. But discounting problems due to installation is a mistake. And discounting the risk of connections that loosen over time is also a mistake. A Hubbell with loose wires can overheat and melt, just like a cheap one can.

I purchased a Leviton 14-50 EV outlet from Home Depot to replace the cheap Home Depot one I installed before I knew better. It is built almost identically like the more expensive Hubbell outlet and it is very robust. It is not "junk", IMO. What evidence do you have that makes you think it is junk?

Here are a few pictures of the outlet I have yet to install. (I am not using the 14-50 outlet so I have not prioritized installing it over other house projects.)

You can plainly see it has very robust connections for the wires, and it is just as substantial at the Hubbell outlet. If you have some evidence it isn't, maybe you can share what you know. I can trash it and get a Hubbell if you are convincing, but evidence instead of opinion is what is needed.

 

[NY_Rob]

^ if it's EV rated you should be fine, also consider using ferules on the ends of the cables, it keeps the bundle nice and tight as the tension screw is clamping down on it.

 

[Hereforthesnacks]

I have a 7 year old Siemens EVSE that is NEMA 6-50 plug, charged 2 Cayenne PHEVS, my Taycan, 2 XM PHEVS with zero issue. It only draws 32 amps, but why the assumption that a plug in EVSE will ultimately fail? Currently also using a NEMA 6-50 plug ChargePoint on both my G580 and R1S, it is 4 years old (also did some of the charging on my Taycan and iX).

I also had a Siemens for 10 years. Never a serious issue. Once in a while (once or twice a year) it wouldn’t charge after the delay. But that it.

 

[Kaiju]

I purchased a Leviton 14-50 EV outlet from Home Depot to replace the cheap Home Depot one I installed before I knew better. It is built almost identically like the more expensive Hubbell outlet and it is very robust. It is not "junk", IMO. What evidence do you have that makes you think it is junk?

I have seen some discussion that Leviton revised their 14-50 plug in 2024 and made it more heavy duty, or at least made a different kind for EV charging. Looking at home depot this has replaced the type you can see in the picture I posted.

It also costs $50 vs the $15-20 for the typical big box special. I think conventional wisdom holds true, the cheap ones are cheap for a reason. That said if you want the exact same thing to compare without the Hubbell brand premium, look for the Bryant one. It's a Hubbell-owned brand but it's cheaper and seems to be exactly identical.

 

[srkz]

I bet the 50' run was more than half the total. it's a long pull with heavy gauge wire and copper ain't cheap. not much you can do about that.

In California the copper for a 50’ run to my garage was only about $350 last year, and that at retail Home Depot rates.

My main panel is 100A and there was just enough room in the load calc to fit a 40A circuit for a 14-50 without needing a load balancer or anything - I just use the mobile charger that came with the truck. Old house though so lots of gas appliances still.

The reason 14-50s melt is because of improper torque on the lugs. I don’t think you can even blame thermal cycling most of the time, it’s because homeowners and lazy electricians just don’t torque them down hard enough to get the correct resistance.

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