RivianTrackr: "Stop Buying EVs for the Trip You Take Twice a Year"

[TexasBob]

There are several factors that can affect range - speed, temperature, wind. If I want to go on a road trip in winter when it is 20F out, windy, and drive at 80 mph, what range am I realistically getting on an R2? 180 miles since I won't drive to 0% SOC? That's only 2 hours 15 minutes of driving.

There is no way you would get anything close to 180 miles. If you are at 20F windy and 80 mph (10 mph headwind = 90 mph) you will get in the very best case 150 miles of total range and 125 miles usable.

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[macb00kemdanno]

I think EV range is highly personal depending on your life and your location. Where R2 range could be of a concern me as a real life example is the following. I drive from SC to VA and back a decent amount each year. it is 350 miles or so. I always stop once in the middle to go to the bathroom and charge my Tesla Model 3. That was always the case no matter the time of the year, only one stop in the middle. If R2 range makes me have to charge deeper (past 75-80%) or have to stop another time bc it can't make it, well then that would be very disappointing. I think I will be ok, but it is something that is going to annoy me a lot if it happens. I won't know for sure until I get the car but I am mildly concerned about it.

Is that 350 miles one-way or round-trip?

I do a similar two-state hop during my NC to MD trips (~350 miles one way). It requires three stops round-trip:

• First stop, a little past the halfway point in Northern Virginia on the way there (15 mins or so).
• Second stop in the DC area on the way back home (about 20 mins)
• Third stop once I cross the NC line on the way home (about 5 mins tops... just enough to get home with around 9 or 10% left in the tank)

I'm highly confident that the R2 should be able to manage that.

 

[tivoboy]

I just got back from a 1200 mile round trip to CT in my XC60 and ran some numbers to see how it would compare to an R2:

My XC60 got 28mpg across 1200 miles which is 43 gallons. Premium in my part of VA was about $4 when I left, and it was $5 in CT. So average out $4.50/gallon x 43 gallons = $193.

Based off recent range tests, I assume the R2 would average 2.75 mi/kWh on this trip, which is 436 kWh across 1200 miles. If I only charged at public chargers at $0.50/kWh, then that's $218. If I factor in fully charging at home in VA before leaving ($0.20/kWh) and charging up in CT before leaving my folks ($0.30/kWh), that does bring it down to something closer to $180.

Of course, this is just my estimate based on R2 data available.

So I'm probably going to break even on the cost on these trips, which maybe isn't a shock to experienced EV people here. But new EV buyers like myself might be surprised that road tripping in an EV might cost MORE than their current ICE vehicle.

The good news is that with local driving and home charging only, the numbers are much better and shower significant savings. Just doesn't work out as nicely on road trips.

Yes as I at least tried to indicate an r2 is worse than say a l Tesla and at highway speeds and ice capabilities and location an ice will perform better for $ efficiency and or EV cpuld perform worse do it could be about a wash.

 

[Jeremy3292]

Is that 350 miles one-way or round-trip?

I do a similar two-state hop during my NC to MD trips (~350 miles one way). It requires three stops round-trip:

• First stop, a little past the halfway point in Northern Virginia on the way there (15 mins or so).
• Second stop in the DC area on the way back home (about 20 mins)
• Third stop once I cross the NC line on the way home (about 5 mins tops... just enough to get home with around 9 or 10% left in the tank)

I'm highly confident that the R2 should be able to manage that.

One way. Leave at 100%->drive down to 10%->stop and charge to 70-80%->arrive at destination at whatever percent. Same on the way back as I have L2 charging at my destination.

So if my stopping once in the middle to charge at 70-80% wasn't enough to reach my destination and then I have to stop again like 25-50 miles away that would suck.

 

[TexasBob]

This is perfectly good math, but the savings case for EVs has always been charging at home 95%+ of the time and not DCFC. Apt dwellers often ask on here, Reddit, Tesla forums, etc. "should they get an EV if they don't have charging at their apt" and the answer is almost always unequivocally no.

I just did a 1,200 mile trip from Houston to NW Arkansas (up Sunday back Wed) in my R1T and kept meticulous data logs to feed into my Claude model. What you are saying here creates a surprising artifact when comparing vehicles when modeled on this specific trip vs actuals:

R1T G1 Lrg — 110 min charging, 4 stops, $187.59 ($0.156/mi, 2.27 mi/kWh)
R2 Performance — 104 min charging, 6 stops, $164.06 ($0.136/mi, 2.85 mi/kWh)
iX3 50 xDrive — 44 min charging, 4 stops, $135.69 ($0.113/mi, 3.00 mi/kWh)
iX5 60 xDrive — 40 min charging, 4 stops, $151.27 ($0.126/mi, 2.50 mi/kWh)

My immediate reaction is "no way a big vehicle like iX5 has lower cost than an R2" but the answer is in the long range. When you have a long range vehicle you start with more cheap / free home energy (or cheap L2 hotel energy) so you end up with a cheaper drive. Obvious when you say it: bigger batteries are hauling very cheap electrons especially if you have home solar; DCFC is very expensive electrons.

Edit - details below

OUTBOUND — 578.5 mi
R1T G1 Lrg — 57 minutes charging, 2 stops (Plano 13→61% 25 min · McAlester 10→69% 32 min) — $83.95
R2 Performance — 54 minutes charging, 3 stops (Corsicana 27→57% 10 min · Plano 26→70% 16 min · McAlester 10→80% 27 min) — $73.99
iX3 50 xDrive — 23 minutes charging, 2 stops (Plano 20→60% 10 min · McAlester 14→64% 13 min) — $58.53
iX5 60 xDrive — 21 minutes charging, 2 stops (Plano 28→62% 10 min · McAlester 20→59% 11 min) — $62.51

LOCAL — 49.1 mi, overnight L2
R1T $4.73 · R2 $3.78 · iX3 50 $3.58 · iX5 60 $4.30

RETURN — 576.9 mi
R1T G1 Lrg — 53 minutes charging, 2 stops (Denison 13→54% 20 min · Corsicana 10→70% 33 min) — $73.47 DCFC + $25.44 L2 departure = $98.91
R2 Performance — 51 minutes charging, 3 stops (McAlester 33→61% 10 min · Denison 24→62% 13 min · Corsicana 10→81% 28 min) — $69.22 + $17.07 = $86.29
iX3 50 xDrive — 21 minutes charging, 2 stops (Sherman 17→58% 10 min · Corsicana 21→64% 11 min) — $52.47 + $21.11 = $73.58
iX5 60 xDrive — 19 minutes charging, 2 stops (Sherman 25→61% 10 min · Corsicana 27→59% 9 min) — $56.49 + $27.97 = $84.46

 

[Jeremy3292]

Obvious when you say it: bigger batteries are hauling very cheap electrons especially if you have home solar; DCFC is very expensive electrons.

Precisely. I have 9.315kW DC solar and 3 Tesla Powerwalls, so I am all in home charging. Even if people don't most places have cheap electricity at home. It's $0.13/kWh here in SC and it used to be $0.11/kWh before rates have gone up steadily. That's under $12 for a full charge on R2 from 0-100%.

 

[Ralph]

I mean, I gave an example of the trip I'm taking soon. There are like 3 legs of the trip that have me leaving at 8 AM and getting to the next hotel at 8-9 PM and involve 450-500 miles of driving. I simply wouldn't be able to keep to schedule in an R2. I'd have to drop multiple stops from each of those days. And on the other days, is have to shorten stops and/or arrive an hour plus later than otherwise.

Like, this trip is literally impossible in an R2 compared to a 400 mile range ICE vehicle. I would have to give things up, and I don't want to.

You most certainly plan itineraries that are impractical with the current state of EVs. It sounds like you have responded to your need to do that in a very practical manner by keeping the Ascent.

Makes sense to me.

 

[mkg3]

I literally gave up my last ICE vehicle because I would rather fly and rent a car than be in a vehicle for that long. To each their own until we have a transit system like Europe or Japan (spent two weeks there in May and never touched a car) so we don't have to rely on personal vehicles.
I also have another strong reason to give up all ICE vehicles. Emissions testing for air quality attainment. I don't have to worry about some random sensor or pollution control system causing me an expensive repair bill that is required to pass the annual inspection. Enjoy the R2 as many of us are enjoying our R1's and want to see Rivian continue to succeed.

I used to be just like you. Always flew and rented cars at the destination. I still do that for some things but road trips and flying are not mutually exclusive.

There are so many things you can only see by driving along the way to the final destination. Cannot see from air or stop and experience it.

Our kids are grown and live on their own in the SF Bay Area and we are in SoCal. They often ask us to bring up some bulky stuff from home that they left behind when we come up next. Cannot do that by air nor do I want to FedEx stuff to them.

So there are use-cases for road tripper as well as cause of air travel.

 

[SANZC02]

One way. Leave at 100%->drive down to 10%->stop and charge to 70-80%->arrive at destination at whatever percent. Same on the way back as I have L2 charging at my destination.

So if my stopping once in the middle to charge at 70-80% wasn't enough to reach my destination and then I have to stop again like 25-50 miles away that would suck.

Based on my first R2 test I think you can do it in the R2. OC to Phoenix is 350 miles, if I start in my R1S at 100%, I can get to Quartzite AZ 240 miles away which is 2/3rds.

Driving to Coachella Valley is 1/3rd of the trip and I used the same percent of battery in the R2 that I use in the R1S on that drive.

 

[Jeremy3292]

Based on my first R2 test I think you can do it in the R2. OC to Phoenix is 350 miles, if I start in my R1S at 100%, I can get to Quartzite AZ 240 miles away which is 2/3rds.

Driving to Coachella Valley is 1/3rd of the trip and I used the same percent of battery in the R2 that I use in the R1S on that drive.

Yeah I think I will be fine unless it is really cold outside, but that killed my Model 3 range too and I had to stop an extra time. Was 9 degrees one December morning when I left VA, range was cooked that day lol. I think it is these personal use cases that make range important in the eyes of the beholder. I don't drive 5 hours straight, but I sure don't want to have to stop twice to charge on that 5 hour trip either.

 

[jemenake]

My personal feeling is the opposite of the article.

My first serious EV was a Tesla Model S, and, because "Jeez! That's a lot of money!", I got just about the cheapest there was, the 70kWh battery. Then, on the few-times-per-year occasions when I needed to drive to L.A., I'd have to stop and charge or grit my teeth as I rolled into my destination with 2% charge left. There were a few times when I'd want to go to a concert with a friend about 120 miles away, and we'd always end up having to charge a couple of times at around midnight on the way back. It was at that point where I started switching to the opinion of: buy the biggest battery they offer because: 1) charging late at night when you just want to get home is a bigger hassle than you'd think, 2) it's some cushion against battery degradation, and 3) you're going to recoup some of that value when you sell it.

Then, I bought a long-range Model 3, and holy smokes, 90 more miles of range was a game changer. Trips to LA often didn't even need setting the charge limit to 100%; I could just leave it at 80% and get there with range to spare. Quick-turnaround trips to a concert were no problem. Also, contrary to the article's bemoaning the "carrying around a few hundred extra pounds of battery" during daily driving, my Model 3 got better mileage than my Model S.

Now, I realize that, when you total up all of the minutes of waiting while refueling a vehicle, EVs easily beat ICEs, but that's cold comfort when you're playing Candy Crush to kill the time while you sit in your car at 11pm at a charging station because the restaurants are closed.

There are a lot of places where you can economize on your EV purchase if money is tight: wheels, entertainment package, deluxe paint, seat material... battery should not be one of the areas where you cheap out.

 

[NinjaWrap]

It's $0.13/kWh here in SC and it used to be $0.11/kWh before rates have gone up steadily. That's under $12 for a full charge on R2 from 0-100%.

I am glad I was about to get on Duke's overnight EV charging plan. 11p-5a rate is now $0.065, so R2 would cost me less than $6 for 0-100%. Compare that with $8 for my Cybertruck

 

[SugarRivian96]

There are a lot of places where you can economize on your EV purchase if money is tight: wheels, entertainment package, deluxe paint, seat material... battery should not be one of the areas where you cheap out.

agree 100%. We bought our R1S with the largest battery in that edition specifically because it eliminated the need to rent a three row XL wheelbase car for semi-annual trips to see family. Think national lampoons vacation, without the whimsy.

We dont get the 400 mile range the vehicle promises on the dash, but if we went for the standard battery, we’d be stopping twice as much (and honestly likely back to renting a Tahoe >2x per year for multiple weeks).

R2 would be fine for many, maybe most… but right now, I’ll take a used R1S in the $60k range with a big battery and low miles. Makes way more financial sense.

 

[Donald Stanfield]

ICE owners don't look at range at all during road trips. They don't plan trips around range and recharging at all. If you decide you need to add gas, you get it within the next 5 minutes after your decision and spend a few minutes doing so.

But even with gas availability people think twice before they buy something like new land cruiser that has range like an ev - 300 miles . Everyone you see reviewing this car is complaining about it's range. Now imagine what people think about EV that has same or worse range and extremely slow charging compared to gas and requiring to do a long detour to reach charging station

I was looking at a GX550, and it's a common complaint that the gas tank is only 18 gallons. So you're right, range is important. My RHO has a 33-gallon tank and a 500-mile range.

 

[TXChips]

I've had my leased R1T for a year and had to rent a car for a road trip that was not easily doable with the R1T, DFW area to rural area outside of Branson, MO. Spending money to rent a car, the time to go out and rent it, driving something less comfortable than the R1T, left a really bad taste in my mouth.

My next vehicle will not be an EV. When I look at total cost of ownership, new EV depreciation is so atrocious that any electricity savings you get are

My R1T has lost, according to Carvana, $28k off MSRP in a year and 10k miles. Taking in discounts I would've received buying the car the real depreciation number is ~$15k. Add in higher insurance prices, faster tire wear, lower maintenance costs, and cheap TX gas, by my math a Rivian R2 would cost as much to own over 5 years as a Lexus GX, and much more to own than a 4Runner. For me, the EV powertrain and home charging isn't "worth" the money I would save over time with a gas vehicle, and I don't have to worry about certain road trips being possible. I know for a fact I can't make a convenient trip out to Big Bend NP in my so-called adventure vehicle. Maybe in 5 years, but not today.

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