Wall charger installation at home - suggestions and recommendations? ⚡️⚡️

[Monkey]

FWIW, the outer metal sheath of the copper 6/2 MC (metal-flex-encased THHN) I used on the 60A circuit for my Rivian Wall Charger gets REALLY warm to the touch when I’m charging full-tilt (and it is in the open garage fastened to the wall, not even in-wall). There is ZERO chance I’d choose to gamble with 6-gauge NM-B/Romex for this task and potentially endanger my family and home.

This right here. People are using Romex because it's a lot cheaper and can be picked up at Home Depot. Also 6/2 THHN isn't readily available at a lot of stores and they're not going out of their way to find it. Romex IS NOT ACCEPTABLE for the EVSE install as it's not rated for this level of use and thermal load. Romex becomes a fire hazard in this situation, especially on longer runs. Speaking of longer runs, even with 6-gauge THHN, one should consider stepping up to 4-gauge for that 60A circuit. I don't recall where the threshold is for this -- hire an electrician that hopefully knows what they're doing. But somewhere in the range of 70 feet or longer on the wire run, you need to move to a heavier gauge wire.

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[chrismc]

Speaking of longer runs, even with 6-gauge THHN, one should consider stepping up to 4-gauge for that 60A circuit. I don't recall where the threshold is for this -- hire an electrician that hopefully knows what they're doing. But somewhere in the range of 70 feet or longer on the wire run, you need to move to a heavier gauge wire.

90C rated copper 6-gauge at 60A has 1.21% voltage drop over 50’, and should be within the 3% tolerance up to 123’ (but I certainly wouldn’t push it that far).

 

[Monkey]

90C rated copper 6-gauge at 60A has 1.21% voltage drop over 50’, and should be within the 3% tolerance up to 123’ (but I certainly wouldn’t push it that far).

Probably about right.

My electrician pulled (or his crew did the work) 4-gauge, probably close to an 80ft run from the panel through attic space. He said it was just past the limit of what he'd be comfortable using 6-gauge for, given attic temperatures.

 

[R1Sky Business]

<blush> I'm sorry. I can't deny it, but I've tried to not point that out. I'm not going to turn it down, but I will feel guilty (for a while at least) as I drive it knowing how many people have been waiting for literally years.

The only thing I can think of is that I went with the basic Adventure config with an interior color that they are actually building. I've seen some folks wondering if they might have delivered enough of the 20" wheels that they are temporarily constrained and hence they are concentrating on the "stock" 21" wheels? If so, that would certainly have helped.

I honestly don't know how this happened so quickly. I've bought several lottery tickets over the past couple weeks (since the Guide introduction email) and haven't won anything there ... this my have used up all of my luck.

pat----

No need to apologize, enjoy the ride.

 

[ajdelange]

Romex becomes a fire hazard in this situation, especially on longer runs.

Well that's a bit of an exaggeration. No. 6 Southwire Romex and Southwire MC have (probably) the same conductors in them but the NM-B is only rated, per code, for 55A while the MC or THHN in conduit is rated for 65. You will be pulling 48A at most and only using two conductors (the ratings are for up to 3) so the violation is a technical one more than anything else but it is a violation nonetheless which could wind up costing you a lot of money if you are unlucky (insurance company won't pay claim, prospective buyer lowers offered prince after home inspector discovers violation....). Some here more or less flagrantly suggest violating code. Whether you want to do that is really up to you but I can't in good conscience advocate it.

 

[Monkey]

Well that's a bit of an exaggeration. No. 6 Southwire Romex and Southwire MC have (probably) the same conductors in them but the NM-B is only rated, per code, for 55A while the MC or THHN in conduit is rated for 65. You will be pulling 48A at most and only using two conductors (the ratings are for up to 3)

Not a bit of an exaggeration. Southwire is only one brand/supplier. And (probably) the same conductors does not mean it's the same. And rated for 55A is not adequate for installation on a 60A breaker, even if you're only pulling a sustained load of 48A. So I'm not exactly sure what it is you are advocating or not advocating here.

 

[Gshenderson]

Not a bit of an exaggeration. Southwire is only one brand/supplier. And (probably) the same conductors does not mean it's the same. And rated for 55A is not adequate for installation on a 60A breaker, even if you're only pulling a sustained load of 48A. So I'm not exactly sure what it is you are advocating or not advocating here.

He’s been pretty clear he’s NOT advocating for doing this. In fact, he’s directly saying your shouldn’t do it. I believe his last post is saying the reason to not do it is because it’s a code violation, not because it’s inherently dangerous. Some folks might say any code violation is inherently dangerous. I would disagree. Codes and standards are based on worst case scenarios. If you manage the other risk factors (in this case length of conductor, ambient temps in the conductor’s environment, etc), you can manage the risk and perhaps be even safer than another application that does meet code. I personally made my decision based on my unique circumstance, and do not advocate that anyone else do it the same way.

Now hopefully we can stop beating this dead horse.

 

[ajdelange]

Not a bit of an exaggeration.

OK. A gross exaggeration.

Southwire is only one brand/supplier.

The only one that makes Romex. It is their trademark and they protect it vigorously.

And (probably) the same conductors does not mean it's the same.

Southwire describes their Romex conductors as 90° PVC with a nylon sheath, That's a description of THHN for sure but we can't be sure whether it is THHN or THHB/THWN. A Southiwire makes cable which they specifically say has THHN conductors they probably use wire from the same production lile for Romex and it should be clear that were it not for the code limitations on NM-B that it would be adequate for a 60A circuit.

As I've said many times before, insurance companies (NFPA) like those 5 9's. Obviously they think they don't get 5 9's out of NM-B rated by the conductors. It doesn't matter what's behind it (probably a fire). The code is the code. Violate it at your own risk.

 

[RexRemus]

Not to derail everyone ceaselessly pointing out installation errors but a question related to this...

Is it feasible to have an electrician install a 220/240v 60A circuit that terminates to a 14-60r outlet and then wire in a 14-60 plug from the Rivian Charger or MUST the charger be hardwired into the circuit? Thanks!

 

[CommodoreAmiga]

Not to derail everyone ceaselessly pointing out installation errors but a question related to this...

Is it feasible to have an electrician install a 220/240v 60A circuit that terminates to a 14-60r outlet and then wire in a 14-60 plug from the Rivian Charger or MUST the charger be hardwired into the circuit? Thanks!

There is no "14-60R". It doesn't exist.

You could do a NEMA 14-50R, which would need a 50A breaker, and you'd need to limit the EVSE to 40A since it's a "continuous load".

There is disagreement on whether it is code-compliant to install a NEMA 14-50P pigtail on the Rivian Wall EVSE. I say it is likely not compliant, but I won't go into all the details, since there are other threads with that.

Code in most jurisdictions, now, requires a GFCI on the outlet, which can mess with the EVSE (Rivian manual specifically calls this out, iirc) so even when it's "allowed" I'd say that plug-in EVSEs are less-than-ideal and a hardwired installation is going to be safer, more reliable, and support faster charging.

 

[RexRemus]

There is no "14-60R". It doesn't exist.

You could do a NEMA 14-50R, which would need a 50A breaker, and you'd need to limit the EVSE to 40A since it's a "continuous load".

There is disagreement on whether it is code-compliant to install a NEMA 14-50P pigtail on the Rivian Wall EVSE. I say it is likely not compliant, but I won't go into all the details, since there are other threads with that.

Code in most jurisdictions, now, requires a GFCI on the outlet, which can mess with the EVSE (Rivian manual specifically calls this out, iirc) so even when it's "allowed" I'd say that plug-in EVSEs are less-than-ideal and a hardwired installation is going to be safer, more reliable, and support faster charging.

hmm, maybe links don't work? Or at least I'm not seeing it but remove the space:
https: //www.amazon.com/Receptacle-Single-14-60R-250V-Black/dp/B0078RI3CK

So, it's possible, but unlikely. Ok, that's good info. I'm trying to convince a landlord to let me pay to install the charger (eventually) and thought it might be more appealing to them if it were a simple plug, that way when I leave they're not left having to manage the bare wires and such (and neither am I - I just unplug and go).

 

[ajdelange]

Is it feasible to have an electrician install a 220/240v 60A circuit that terminates to a 14-60r outlet and then wire in a 14-60 plug from the Rivian Charger or MUST the charger be hardwired into the circuit? Thanks!

Yes, quite feasible but not code compliant. The largest permissible plug in charger according to NEC is 40 A (14-50R) and a plug in EVSE is not allowed to be adjustable (the RIvian EVSE is.

 

[ajdelange]

There is no "14-60R". It doesn't exist.

Indeed there is a 14-60R receptacle. It is identical in every respect to 14-30R and 14-50R except that its neutral slot is a different shape.

You can buy a 14-60P equipped portable EVSE (I have one). I am assured it is legal in Canada. It cannot be installed as NEC compliant EVSE in the States. But if someone has a 14-60R installed in his shop for a welder or somesuch you could use it. It has fixed programming for 48A maximum compliant with the 80% non-intermittent load requirement of NEC (and presumably the Canadian code).

 

[RexRemus]

Yes, quite feasible but not code compliant. The largest permissible plug in charger according to NEC is 40 A (14-50R) and a plug in EVSE is not allowed to be adjustable (the RIvian EVSE is.

Ok, well, so much for that then. Thanks!

 

[Dirty_B]

Yes, quite feasible but not code compliant. The largest permissible plug in charger according to NEC is 40 A (14-50R) and a plug in EVSE is not allowed to be adjustable (the RIvian EVSE is.

So the Wallbox Pulsar plus with a 14-50 is not NEC compliant? OEM says it software adjustable so that means can't be NEC?

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