My List of Desired Changes

[yizzung]

Prepared to have virtual tomatoes thrown at me for this post, but people are really asking the wrong question of Rivian when they talk about Carplay. It has nothing to do with how difficult or easy it is to implement. Or whether or not a crappy rental car has it, so why can't Rivian...

Rivian has a long-term business model that seeks to monetize relationships with customers [us] and software IS the medium for it. Giving away all that leverage to Google/Apple might satisfy lots of individual consumers but it's letting the fox into the henhouse and forfeting a lot of value in the long run:
https://www.cnbc.com/2022/07/22/app...rojan-horse-into-the-automotive-industry.html
https://www.reuters.com/business/au...dashboard-it-revs-up-car-software-2022-06-30/
https://robbreport.com/lifestyle/news/apple-carplay-scares-automakers-1234733424/

Google owns a self-driving car company. Apple is building a car. We've seen this movie over and over again (mobile phones, TV sets, smart speakers, etc.) You may hate Rivian and Tesla for trying to buck the trend but they aren't doing it because they are stupid or lazy. They just don't want to be the next Nokia (trading at ~10% of their all-time high).

Hats off to both Google and Apple for creating all this consumer demand in automotive. Clearly very difficult to for OEMs to resist.

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[s4wrxttcs]

I find it especially alarming that the R1T has blind spots where I also have blind spots. That is something I was especially looking forward to eliminating with a modern BEV.

I assumed the OP meant the Instrument cluster display.

As far as I can tell the blindspot monitoring indicators in the mirrors work great.

 

[s4wrxttcs]

Prepared to have virtual tomatoes thrown at me for this post, but people are really asking the wrong question of Rivian when they talk about Carplay. It has nothing to do with how difficult or easy it is to implement. Or whether or not a crappy rental car has it, so why can't Rivian...

Rivian has a long-term business model that seeks to monetize relationships with customers [us] and software IS the medium for it. Giving away all that leverage to Google/Apple might satisfy lots of individual consumers but it's letting the fox into the henhouse and forfeting a lot of value in the long run:
https://www.cnbc.com/2022/07/22/app...rojan-horse-into-the-automotive-industry.html
https://www.reuters.com/business/au...dashboard-it-revs-up-car-software-2022-06-30/
https://robbreport.com/lifestyle/news/apple-carplay-scares-automakers-1234733424/

Google owns a self-driving car company. Apple is building a car. We've seen this movie over and over again (mobile phones, TV sets, smart speakers, etc.) You may hate Rivian and Tesla for trying to buck the trend but they aren't doing it because they are stupid or lazy. They just don't want to be the next Nokia (trading at ~10% of their all-time high).

Hats off to both Google and Apple for creating all this consumer demand in automotive. Clearly very difficult to for OEMs to resist.

No virtual tomato.

But, I think the writing is on the wall and they're going to have to add support for Carplay + Android Auto.

There is just too much demand for it, and a lot of the competition has it.

I say this as someone who does believe there is value in having a custom solution in optimizing things. Things like preconditioning when your destination is a L3 EA charger where you can't do that if Apple Maps is doing the routing instead.

 

[s4wrxttcs]

Wait.......what? Are you saying the R1T cannot detect vehicles in your blind slot? ?

This is a 100% deal breaker for me buying an R1T. I'm not going back to 1997, to a vehicle without blind spot monitoring.

Can someone confirm what they are talking about here?

In your Model 3, and your Model Y the blind spot monitoring indicator is in the center console where it shows the vehicles.

In the R1T the blind spot monitoring indicator is in the mirrors like it is with most cars.

As as a former owner of a Model 3, and a current owner of an R1T I promise you that the Rivian R1T blind spot monitoring works much better than the Tesla.

Most of the OP's list makes sense to me, but the first one I'm a bit miffed at. I can understanding wanting the instrument cluster to show it in addition to the side mirrors, but that would be a want.

If the OP is noticing the blind spot indicators in the mirror not showing when vehicles are in the blind spot then something is wrong with their vehicle.

 

[s4wrxttcs]

As to the maps I'm getting really sick of companies like Tesla, and Rivian using open-source map software, but giving customers no way of fixing broken information.

Allow us to report bad information, and let us know when it gets fixed.

Anything from bad speed limits to incorrect routing.

 

[Prime]

No idea what they are talking about. My blindspot warning works fine in my R1T. Just like any other car with the Warning light on the side view mirror. Also, of course, audible and visual alarm on the dash if you were to try to veer in to someone.

I rented a R1T and was impressed with the blind spot monitoring system. Got the audible chime, the indicator in the dash screen, and the orange icon on the mirror. Only thing I would ask for is to have the side camera activate like Tesla does when the blinker is on to get a clear visualization as well. I am sure its something they can do with a software update, but even without that, the blind spot system was spot on in city and highway driving during my rather short 2 day experience with the car.

 

[ironpig]

I rented a R1T and was impressed with the blind spot monitoring system. Got the chime, the indicator, and the orange icon on the mirror. Only thing I would ask for is to have the side camera activate like Tesla does when the blinker is on to get a clear visualization as well. I am sure its something they can do with a software update, but even without that, the blind spot system was spot on on city and highway driving during my rather short 2 day experience with the car.

Agreed. And yes they could add the camera view as a software update.

It's possible the OP of this thread doesn't have the latest software update because there are a few complaints items that have been fixed in the latest updates.

 

[yizzung]

No virtual tomato.

But, I think the writing is on the wall and they're going to have to add support for Carplay + Android Auto.

There is just too much demand for it, and a lot of the competition has it.

I say this as someone who does believe there is value in having a custom solution in optimizing things. Things like preconditioning when your destination is a L3 EA charger where you can't do that if Apple Maps is doing the routing instead.

Yep, totally. And that's just the first obvious example. Rivian declared in their filing to go public that there are many additional monetizable opportunities on the way, so that future is already baked into their business model.

It's certainly possible that they throw in the towel at some point but I think most consumers underestimate how big of a strategic capitulation that would be (mostly because they've watched every single vehicle OEM capitulate over the years). The phone and TV markets are dead and gone, but I suspect that Rivian is gambling (like Tesla has to date) that they still have something unique enough to offer that gives them a chance and keeps the foxes out of the henhouse.

A Honda Civic does not have any leverage in the marketplace -- it's a commodity -- so they have to follow or else they lose a lot of sales to [the Toyota Civic or whatever their identical car is called]. If enough people grow to think that the Lightning is just a "Rivian with Carplay", then you'll definitely end up being correct and Rivian may eventually blink. Just be prepared for the market cap to also reflect their failure to realize this part of their original business model.

 

[Aroohoo]

Re: blindspot, is the concern that the instrument cluster rendering of vehicles/objects/warnings are not tied to the side mirror blind spot indication? If so, seems like a simple update.

If the concern that the Blindspot monitor doesn't give equivalent coverage to the implementation used by other cars on the market, then perhaps there is a concern.

 

[astonius]

A Honda Civic does not have any leverage in the marketplace -- it's a commodity -- so they have to follow or else they lose a lot of sales to [the Toyota Civic or whatever their identical car is called]. If enough people grow to think that the Lightning is just a "Rivian with Carplay", then you'll definitely end up being correct and Rivian may eventually blink. Just be prepared for the market cap to also reflect their failure to realize this part of their original business model.

Porsche, BMW, Mercedes, hell even Ferrari and Lamborghini... these aren't commodities either, and they all support CarPlay.

There are other ways to monetize the in-car experience with ongoing revenue than trying to reinvent the wheel that was solved by deep phone integration. It's not "giving up" to leave the things Apple and Google do best to them. It allows the Rivian team to focus on the elements that make a Rivian special and unique rather than having to spend time and development resources attempting to recreate what's already been solved.

 

[Gsxr150]

In your Model 3, and your Model Y the blind spot monitoring indicator is in the center console where it shows the vehicles.

In the R1T the blind spot monitoring indicator is in the mirrors like it is with most cars.

As as a former owner of a Model 3, and a current owner of an R1T I promise you that the Rivian R1T blind spot monitoring works much better than the Tesla.

Most of the OP's list makes sense to me, but the first one I'm a bit miffed at. I can understanding wanting the instrument cluster to show it in addition to the side mirrors, but that would be a want.

If the OP is noticing the blind spot indicators in the mirror not showing when vehicles are in the blind spot then something is wrong with their vehicle.

Great intel! Thank you for sharing!

 

[yizzung]

Porsche, BMW, Mercedes, hell even Ferrari and Lamborghini... these aren't commodities either, and they all support CarPlay.

There are other ways to monetize the in-car experience with ongoing revenue than trying to reinvent the wheel that was solved by deep phone integration. It's not "giving up" to leave the things Apple and Google do best to them. It allows the Rivian team to focus on the elements that make a Rivian special and unique rather than having to spend time and development resources attempting to recreate what's already been solved.

Compelling case and yet they mysteriously remain unconvinced. Probably has something to do with the massive demand for their vehicles.

 

[Phrogz]

A followup to all the comments about my semi-incorrect "blind spot" item, which after further testing I've reworded and moved down to Strong Want.

I find it especially alarming that the R1T has blind spots where I also have blind spots.

Wait.......what? Are you saying the R1T cannot detect vehicles in your blind slot? ?

It's pretty well known the R1T has traditional blind spot monitoring, there's lights that turn on in each side mirror much like several other vehicles.

No idea what they are talking about. My blindspot warning works fine in my R1T. Just like any other car with the Warning light on the side view mirror. Also, of course, audible and visual alarm on the dash if you were to try to veer in to someone.

As far as I can tell the blindspot monitoring indicators in the mirrors work great.

Most of the OP's list makes sense to me, but the first one I'm a bit miffed at. I can understanding wanting the instrument cluster to show it in addition to the side mirrors, but that would be a want.

Re: blindspot, is the concern that the instrument cluster rendering of vehicles/objects/warnings are not tied to the side mirror blind spot indication? If so, seems like a simple update.

Went and tested again. I was incorrect when I said that the R1T has a blind spot in the same spot as the driver's blind spot. The vehicle DOES have a (fairly-sizeable) blind spot, but it is located when the adjacent vehicle is alongside the truck where the driver should be able to see them.

So, there are three regions:

1. Vehicles in an adjacent lane and ahead of the truck are obviously known about and shown as 3D models in the cluster.
2. Vehicles in an adjacent lane and far enough back that they are in the driver's blind spot are known about by the truck. They show in the cluster as yellow warning circles off the rear bumper, they cause the vehicle-in-blind-spot lights to turn on in the mirrors, and they cause the truck to make a warning noise if your turn signal is on.
3. However, there is a region between these two locations, very roughly when the hood of the car is next to the driver, where the truck does not appear to know about the vehicle. The vehicle is not shown in the cluster—neither as a 3D model nor a yellow warning circle—the mirrors do not illuminate the blind spot warning, and no warning sound is made if the turn signal is activated towards that vehicle. But the driver can, I believe, see the adjacent vehicle if the view out the window is unobstructed.

Thanks to everyone for making me double-check this, and thanks to @s4wrxttcs for getting me to re-evaluate its priority. I work with autonomous vehicles at my job, so I was evaluating the blind spot in a mindset of L2+ driving. Driver+ is not at that point (yet?). It's still clearly the driver's job to be safe, to look out the window before making a lane change.

 

[Phrogz]

It's possible the OP of this thread doesn't have the latest software update because there are a few complaints items that have been fixed in the latest updates.

I'm on 2022.31.5 as of last week, and I think all items on the list remain valid. I'm interested to know where I'm wrong, and would appreciate you listing which items you believe are not an issue anymore. (I've added numbers in the first column to more easily reference them.)

 

[Gsxr150]

A followup to all the comments about my semi-incorrect "blind spot" item, which after further testing I've reworded and moved down to Strong Want.









Went and tested again. I was incorrect when I said that the R1T has a blind spot in the same spot as the driver's blind spot. The vehicle DOES have a (fairly-sizeable) blind spot, but it is located when the adjacent vehicle is alongside the truck where the driver should be able to see them.

So, there are three regions:

1. Vehicles in an adjacent lane and ahead of the truck are obviously known about and shown as 3D models in the cluster.
2. Vehicles in an adjacent lane and far enough back that they are in the driver's blind spot are known about by the truck. They show in the cluster as yellow warning circles off the rear bumper, they cause the vehicle-in-blind-spot lights to turn on in the mirrors, and they cause the truck to make a warning noise if your turn signal is on.
3. However, there is a region between these two locations, very roughly when the hood of the car is next to the driver, where the truck does not appear to know about the vehicle. The vehicle is not shown in the cluster—neither as a 3D model nor a yellow warning circle—the mirrors do not illuminate the blind spot warning, and no warning sound is made if the turn signal is activated towards that vehicle. But the driver can, I believe, see the adjacent vehicle if the view out the window is unobstructed.

Thanks to everyone for making me double-check this, and thanks to @s4wrxttcs for getting me to re-evaluate its priority. I work with autonomous vehicles at my job, so I was evaluating the blind spot in a mindset of L2+ driving. Driver+ is not at that point (yet?). It's still clearly the driver's job to be safe, to look out the window before making a lane change.

Humm....interesting find! It can see it so I'm sure it's a software update! I hope so anyway!!

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