Rivian seats vs F-150 Lightning seats - Munro teardown review

[Longreach]

All these recent Munro videos where they point out so many Rivian design mistakes (from a cost perspective, not necessarily perceived quality) suggest Munro did NOT get any contract from Rivian for cost reduction consulting.

A few months ago all the Rivian tear down videos stopped, and we here collectively speculated there would not be any more videos because Rivian would have naturally included a gag clause in any contract. The sudden surge in recent tear down videos suggests there is no contract, which leaves Munro free to use the tear downs as they see fit (marketing, YouTube revenue,…).

One thing is for sure, the R1 cannot be built much longer in its current form because of profitability issues, regardless of price. Rivian will naturally invest more in R2 for profitability, which will leave the current R1 as a limited production unicorn. Good luck in finding all those specialized parts in 10 years.

Rivian is definitely at a crossroads. Every penny needs to be spent on a much lower cost R2 platform with dramatically lower manufacturing costs, especially given the low cost EV manufacturing progress being made by Tesla, GM and the Chinese. Even Toyota has now realized the problem, choosing to throw out all their EV plans (limited as they were), starting from scratch with a new focus on dedicated low manufacturing cost EV platforms.

All bets are still open in the automobile industry survival game…

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[jbssfelix]

The things he points out in the video are not issues of cutting corners. They're just smart decision-making. There's no reason to have 3-4 different bolt covers on the seats, for example. Making those consistent saves money without any reduction in quality.

Or painting all of the thermo-molded plastic parts, which can easily be dyed just about any color from the beginning. Head-scratcher for sure why they did that.

 

[Donald Stanfield]

I can't believe I'm saying this (and it may get me yelled at by my partner, she once made me lug a used Aeron many blocks down Manhattan streets) but I, too, can't stand the Aeron chair. Steelcase Gesture for the win.

Wow. I guess love for the aeron isn’t as universal as I thought. I’ll for sure grant you that it’s not as comfortable as my Eames chair but I usually don’t feel like working when I’m in that chair.

 

[Longreach]

I think they failed to recognize that much of this could be strategic and not just the result of inexperience. Selling a high end design with 0 profit margin may have been a strategic decision to gain a foothold in the market. They can cut corners in the name of profit margin on their next design after they have already proven they can deliver a product that doesn't suck.

It is certainly a big part of what earned them my order. If they had raised the price or reduced the quality to the extent that would be required for a healthy profit margin I wouldn't have been interested in taking a risk on a startup. If I wanted Ford quality I would be buying a Ford, and if I wanted Mercedes prices I would be buying a Mercedes.

There is nothing “high end” about having 4 different sized seat bolt covers or having a ridiculously complicated seat belt assembly procedure. This is just bad design by inexperienced people, plain and simple. The tear down videos show the R1 is riddled with bad design & cost decisions that have nothing to do with quality, real or perceived.

The biggest concern is whether Rivian has or can even get the necessary engineering experience needed to hit the right cost targets for R2. It really will become a do or die moment for them. And no amount of software feature hubris can make up for missing the costing fundamentals.

 

[Tahoe Man]

You don’t like the Aeron? I think you’re the first person I’ve came across that doesn’t. My employees all try to fight over mine when I’m not here.

Yup, my back doesn't agree with those chairs and I tried to adjust it many ways.

 

[NY_Rob]

Or painting all of the thermo-molded plastic parts, which can easily be dyed just about any color from the beginning. Head-scratcher for sure why they did that.

Likely due to inexperience/never manufacturing anything before... live and (hopefully) learn.

 

[MountainBikeDude]

Long story short (was interesting to watch)

-Rivian has the better seat from a comfort/ design standpoint.
-Rivian made several design choices that will cost them a good amount in adjusting moulds etc to be able to streamline.
- Ford seat is okay, but quality wise from standard to platinum, you're better to get the standard seat, because the Platinum 20k premium doesn't translate into a boost in seat quality.

 

[NY_Rob]

There is nothing “high end” about having 4 different sized seat bolt covers or having a ridiculously complicated seat belt assembly procedure. This is just bad design by inexperienced people, plain and simple. The tear down videos show the R1 is riddled with bad design & cost decisions that have nothing to do with quality, real or perceived.

The biggest concern is whether Rivian has or can even get the necessary engineering experience needed to hit the right cost targets for R2. It really will become a do or die moment for them. And no amount of software feature hubris can make up for missing the costing fundamentals.

Couldn't agree more!! We read early on about lots of employees poached from Tesla, maybe mostly software guys/gals.. not people "close to the metal" with manufacturing/practical experience.

 

[sub]

The things he points out in the video are not issues of cutting corners. They're just smart decision-making. There's no reason to have 3-4 different bolt covers on the seats, for example. Making those consistent saves money without any reduction in quality.

Trimming one of the bolt covers to be the same size as the others is quite literally "cutting" the corners.

While the video just assumed that there was no downside to making them all the same size, I suspect that if you asked the designer why they were different they would have an explanation that was not just "ohh I never considered that".

Edit - I am not defending any particular decision Rivian made, but I do think it is unfair to assume without evidence that there was no logical reason for things to have been designed the way they were.

 

[Arky]

In short: Rivian's seat is nicer but horrendously inefficient to manufacture

I'm concerned about the painted plastics they alluded to, where else are these used? Paint scratches off, especially in a truck so I wonder how it will look in a year.

Just putting my water bottle in the side pocket leaves a scuff line that I wouldn't expect on a solid color part, now I have to wonder if I'm damaging something :/

 

[NY_Rob]

While the video just assumed that there was no downside to making them all the same size, I suspect that if you asked the designer why they were different they would have an explanation that was not just "oh I never considered that".

Most likely because it's more difficult to make four unique corner contours use just one common cover part vs. "this is what fits this corner, this is what fits this corner etc..". I would suggest they possibly did consider making the covers match.. .for a second.. then said "that will take too long.. we have other fish to fry.... moving on".

Could be the same with the paint on plastic decision... they were late finalizing the interior colors (possibly due to supply issues) so they made all the seat plastics one color to at least get them produced then have them painted later once the interior colors were finalized?

This is all prototype stuff getting hurried/carried over to production vehicles which will get "adjusted" later on once the other fires (tonneau gate, CV-Joints/half-shafts, glass, etc..) are extinguished.

 

[dleepnw]

best quotes: Rivian is "dumb", "stupid", and "someone's getting high on the assembly line". hilarious

two takeaways:

1. Rivian spared no expense to build a quality seat.
2. Rivian can cut costs by improving design.

im sure its a balance but i think there is room to keep quality while reducing costs. that will need to happen if Rivian wants to be profitable.

 

[astonius]

Trimming one of the bolt covers to be the same size as the others is quite literally "cutting" the corners.

While the video just assumed that there was no downside to making them all the same size, I suspect that if you asked the designer why they were different they would have an explanation that was not just "ohh I never considered that".

Edit - I am not defending any particular decision Rivian made, but I do think it is unfair to assume without evidence that there was no logical reason for things to have been designed the way they were.

They could have made them all wider rather than "cutting" them down. The point is the sizing of those covers does nothing to the perceived quality of the seat and everything to the complexity of producing and assembling the seat. Maybe they did have other reasons for making them different sizes, but quality is not one of them.

 

[SoCal Rob]

Or painting all of the thermo-molded plastic parts, which can easily be dyed just about any color from the beginning. Head-scratcher for sure why they did that.

Maybe the easiest way to get a 100% match on color and sheen?
That’s my best guess and I could be totally wrong.

 

[CharonPDX]

The things he points out in the video are not issues of cutting corners. They're just smart decision-making. There's no reason to have 3-4 different bolt covers on the seats, for example. Making those consistent saves money without any reduction in quality.

As he mentions in the video - two seat bolt covers are identical other than one being 3mm longer. 3mm could have been made up elsewhere. It's on the floor, they could have just left a 3mm gap.

The "painted plastic" and "wrap glued on by hand" that both could have been molded-in color/texture. Heck, I'd *RATHER* have molded-in color/texture. If the paint/wrap gets scratched, you'll see the plastic underneath.

I was glad to hear that the vinyl ("vegan leather") seat material is absolutely on par with real leather in quality, though.

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