Rivian seats vs F-150 Lightning seats - Munro teardown review

[mini2nut]

Bottom line? Rivian leadership needs to have their design team use an efficient approach on all parts for the upcoming R2 if they want to survive. Kind of like the KISS approach. Using 3-4 similar but different seat bolt covers is rediculous.

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[Tejkalra]

Video is too long to tolerate. Please keep it short for viewers. We don't need to know how they can save money or why are they designing it like this. I think most of us are interested in short description and then comparison and results. Instead of going through there business plan, profit and losses.

 

[MoreTrout]

- Ford seat is okay, but quality wise from standard to platinum, you're better to get the standard seat, because the Platinum 20k premium doesn't translate into a boost in seat quality.

I think his observations on inefficient design choices that have nothing to do with how nice the seat is overall were pretty spot on, even if a bit harsh in delivery.

But my issue with him was the way he discussed the overall pricing of either truck and trim levels like the entire difference in price was attributable to the seat design. I'm sure seats aren't cheap, and are no doubt an extremely important design component in the overall user experience, but it would have been pretty easy for him to give some kind of relative ballpark on what % of the overall cost of manufacturing is taken up by the seats. I was never that interested in the Lightning because of the size, but made it sound like the entire $20k difference in price between the Platinum and the next lower trim level was the seat, and that was all you get for ordering that trim level. Right. I suspect it was just his poor public speaking / presentation skills and he didn't really mean that, but he said essentially that multiple times in the video. He basically said Rivian would never make a profit on the R1 because of the seat design. Whether or not they are making any profit on the vehicle as a whole at current pricing is something only Rivian knows, but to suggest the sole reason they aren't making a profit is because of the seats is, well, to use his words....stupid!

 

[Bee]

Every time I see Munro talk about how inefficient the R1x is built for profit I feel really bad about the chances of my 1/22 order ever getting delivered at the pre-March 1 price. Can Rivian withstand 2 years of selling trucks at a loss?

I'm not a stock guy who can look at their cash-on-hand, burn rate, potential future profit, etc. to have an opinion on that. I can monkey math it and say, "sure!" but monkeys don't make money on the stock exchange.

 

[Tonicart]

You don’t like the Aeron? I think you’re the first person I’ve came across that doesn’t. My employees all try to fight over mine when I’m not here.

The aeron is outdated and over spec'd. There are much better options nowadays.

 

[Donald Stanfield]

The aeron is outdated and over spec'd. There are much better options nowadays.

They have a redesign. I have the 2.0

 

[COdogman]

Every time I see Munro talk about how inefficient the R1x is built for profit I feel really bad about the chances of my 1/22 order ever getting delivered at the pre-March 1 price. Can Rivian withstand 2 years of selling trucks at a loss?

I'm not a stock guy who can look at their cash-on-hand, burn rate, potential future profit, etc. to have an opinion on that. I can monkey math it and say, "sure!" but monkeys don't make money on the stock exchange.

Rivian will deliver those vehicles at that price. WHEN is the big question as far as I’m concerned. If you were a pre 3/1 order for a Max Pack or live outside of the “service zone” or live in Canada, you are officially put on the shelf until they can deliver. And if you look at the delivered vehicles list here in the forum you will see that Rivian is clearly mixing in some of the more expensive post 3/1 orders too. That is understandably offensive to older order holders but a good thing for Rivian’s bottom line. It will help them spread out the pain of losing $ on the early pricing.

Just my opinion.

 

[nc10]

Can Rivian withstand 2 years of selling trucks at a loss?

Thats their plan. I think they have a pretty good shot. Not 100% sure what their latest prediction is, I think the latest is to be EBITDA positive by 2026.

On June 30th, 2022, Rivian had ~ $15 billion cash on hand. Cash on hand dropped by ~ $1.2 billion in Q2, likely higher in Q3. We'll get an update on Nov 9 when Q3 earnings are announced. Rivian appears to have enough cash on hand to make to 2024 or so, and get their Georgia plant started up. I'd guess they will need to sell more stock then?

 

[CommodoreAmiga]

Or painting all of the thermo-molded plastic parts, which can easily be dyed just about any color from the beginning. Head-scratcher for sure why they did that.

this is a huge worry for me. Painted plastic isn’t going to wear well.

 

[Tonicart]

They have a redesign. I have the 2.0

Didn't know they redesigned it this year. I think my comment still applies. For the current price, there are some better options. I've been using the older Aeron for 5+ years and it's not great. Wish my employer would spring for Embody's. Been close to pulling the trigger myself a few times...

 

[kurtlikevonnegut]

best quotes: Rivian is "dumb", "stupid", and "someone's getting high on the assembly line". hilarious

two takeaways:

1. Rivian spared no expense to build a quality seat.
2. Rivian can cut costs by improving design.

im sure its a balance but i think there is room to keep quality while reducing costs. that will need to happen if Rivian wants to be profitable.

Personally I think it's pretty dumb of the presenter to not even acknowledge that Rivian has already increased prices to account for this and other manufacturing inefficiencies in their Halo model.

 

[jasazick]

Personally I think it's pretty dumb of the presenter to not even acknowledge that Rivian has already increased prices to account for this and other manufacturing inefficiencies in their Halo model.

He did acknowledge it but in a super offhanded manner. Basically he said "They increased their prices but without giving you any data to back it up, I feel like it isn't enough"

 

[GHuff]

So I guess based on this video, the next seat iteration should be a monolithic slab with manual seat controls.

I get there are some inefficiencies, but Rivian is also pointing at the luxury segment (unlike ford). Also its really harsh to continuously call the designs "stupid" when comparing one car manufacturer thats been building cars for over 100 years and one that has been building cars for about 1 year... I like the seat design, I hope they dont muck it up from all the Munro comments like they did with the tonneau and prob likely the camp kitchen / 12V in the frunk..

Id also wonder how this guy would comment on the EQS SUV seat and all the complexities that seat has, would that be stupid too? its a luxury car, but lets compare it to Ford.

I'm not sure you are getting the point. The Ford Lariat is definitely in that Luxury segment--it is actually more expensive than the Rivian.
All of the things that the Munro video pointed out are design flaws and inefficiencies-none of which would make the seat any less luxurious. I don't think there was a single thing that Munro pointed out that would change anything for the consumer. That was the entire point of the video. Some very simple changes /poor decisions by Rivian would make an equal consumer luxury product yet save time and money for Rivian.

 

[GHuff]

Personally I think it's pretty dumb of the presenter to not even acknowledge that Rivian has already increased prices to account for this and other manufacturing inefficiencies in their Halo model.

Does that make these design flaws any less of flaws? Yeah I agree that should have been mentioned more. But it's also not a great defense by you or Rivian....Let's just raise the price for the consumer to make up for these bad design decisions.

 

[seanocono]

Didn't know they redesigned it this year. I think my comment still applies. For the current price, there are some better options. I've been using the older Aeron for 5+ years and it's not great. Wish my employer would spring for Embody's. Been close to pulling the trigger myself a few times...

I have the latest Aeron and the Embody in my home office and they are both great chairs. They each have their strengths and weaknesses. For instance, the Aeron is much better on a hot day, and the Embody is better for lounging with its wide, cushy seat.

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