My impressions from driving an R1S

[EzeE1o]

And regards Car and Driver, it wasn’t an R1T, it was a very recent comparison between the R1S and the BMW iX M60.

Hmm do you have the link to the comparison test? I searched the CD website but there isnt any in the results.

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[Thud]

Yes, they are - but it's also pretty realistic (adjusted for tire choice) in All Purpose mode as well. Just not at 75mph on the highway - EPA test cycles don't go much over 60 and wind drag gets exponentially worse at higher speeds.


To my (layperson, not an expert) knowledge Tesla can't do this? They simply use different motors that are optimized at different torque bands. I think all modern Teslas use permanent magnet motors, the the R1T.

It's possible to switch off induction motors (and I think older Teslas did this at highway speeds), but disengaging a permanent magnet motor requires mechanical linkage like Rivian has. Wearing that linkage with lots of automatic actuation at high torque seems like a recipe for accelerated failure.

It's also probably not desirable - two wheel drive is significantly worse for traction, driving dynamics, and tire wear, especially at the Rivian's weight. The compromises of Conserve mode are something you should opt into only when needed ("uh oh, I'm not gonna make that charger), not the other way around.

Just checked into this since I remember reading about it in the past; the Model 3/Y use an induction motor in the front, which has much lower idle losses compared to a permanent magnet motor. So on the highway, it's just free-spinning, while the rear permanent magnet motor does the propulsion:

https://insideevs.com/news/518692/tesla-model-3y-drive-units/

The induction motor is less efficient than a permanent magnet motor when driving, but the fact that it can stay free-spinning when not needed and then instantaneously providing power and/or regen makes it come out ahead.

Rivian must be physically disconnecting 2 of the motors in conserve mode then?

 

[SASSquatch]

I ended up with launch green but after I saw the Limestone in person it was my second favorite. Would have pulled the trigger on one from the shop but my number was called with my exact config first. I thought the Limestone was in the nardo gray family. Not exactly that or the tacoma cement color, but in that zip code and a great color for a truck. Definitely not like the subaru cool khaki gray which has lots of blue that Limestone did not (to my eyes).

Including a gratuitous Limestone photo with sun and shade in case you're not confused enough!

Limestone is going to be the death of me!

Appreciate the response. I've seen Launch Green in person many moons ago at a local EV event and a family member of a Rivian employe was showing a LG LE with 20" wheels. Launch Green looks so much better in person than I imagined.

Great choice!

 

[whyasky]

Limestone is going to be the death of me!

Appreciate the response. I've seen Launch Green in person many moons ago at a local EV event and a family member of a Rivian employe was showing a LG LE with 20" wheels. Launch Green looks so much better in person than I imagined.

Great choice!

This rivian world is quite small. I'm 99% certain I was at the same ev event, in Rockville maybe? Spoke with that older gentleman too and was sold on LG there!

In any case, you can't go wrong with the colors. Good luck!

 

[SASSquatch]

This rivian world is quite small. I'm 99% certain I was at the same ev event, in Rockville maybe? Spoke with that older gentleman too and was sold on LG there!

In any case, you can't go wrong with the colors. Good luck!

Yes, that was the event! Small world indeed!

Edit: Here is the write-up I posted of the event with pictures:
https://www.rivianforums.com/forum/...ivian-r1t-will-be-on-display.3876/post-115926

 

[electruck]

Just checked into this since I remember reading about it in the past; the Model 3/Y use an induction motor in the front, which has much lower idle losses compared to a permanent magnet motor. So on the highway, it's just free-spinning, while the rear permanent magnet motor does the propulsion:

https://insideevs.com/news/518692/tesla-model-3y-drive-units/

The induction motor is less efficient than a permanent magnet motor when driving, but the fact that it can stay free-spinning when not needed and then instantaneously providing power and/or regen makes it come out ahead.

Rivian must be physically disconnecting 2 of the motors in conserve mode then?

Yes, Rivian has physical disconnects at the rear motors. The reduction gears for the rear motors are relatively shorter for performance and the fronts taller for efficiency.

https://www.rivianforums.com/forum/...otive-e-axle-disconnect-used-in-rivians.4181/

 

[Thud]

Yes, Rivian has physical disconnects at the rear motors. The reduction gears for the rear motors are relatively shorter for performance and the fronts taller for efficiency.

https://www.rivianforums.com/forum/...otive-e-axle-disconnect-used-in-rivians.4181/

Interesting.
It also quotes a sub-20ms disconnect time, so in theory the software could engage / disengage on demand without being noticed.

 

[VSG]

One worrisome thing is Car and Driver’s recent range test at a steady 75 mph: 230 miles.

The Car and Driver range tests are pretty misleading. They make up their own conditions, which are different than the EPA conditions, and always act disappointed when they can't reproduce the EPA numbers.

Lots of people with R1Ts have gotten way more than the EPA estimate. Just read through this forum. I think I've seem people report better than EPA for the R1S as well, but I haven't paid too much attention to the R1S. The EPA number for the R1S is 316 miles, measured with the 21" tires. This is reduced by 10-15% if you have the 20" AT tires.

I think the Rivian EPA estimates are accurate. But remember the EPA estimate is for a very specific set of driving conditions/speeds. If you drive the same way the EPA assumes, you will get the same number. But your usage may be quite different than that.

If you customarily get less than the EPA mileage rating when driving your existing non-Tesla vehicle, then you will probably get less than the EPA rating for the Rivian. If you customarily get more than the EPA rating, then you will probably get more for the Rivian as well. (I exclude Tesla because they are notoriously inaccurate about their ranges).

In the end, the question you want answered is how many miles will YOU get, and that depends entirely on you. The EPA number is the standardized measure, and you need to adjust that for your specific driving patterns. That adjustment will be similar in any vehicle you drive, because it is accounting for the differences between how you drive and what the EPA assumes. That is why I said if you usually get less than EPA you will also get less for the Rivian. You can't extrapolate the Car and Driver number the same way unless you know the Car and Driver number for all your other vehicles.

 

[richguess]

Hmm do you have the link to the comparison test? I searched the CD website but there isnt any in the results.

Looking, can’t find. Fairly short article, came either as an email or one of those Google stories. Will find it eventually.

 

[richguess]

The Car and Driver range tests are pretty misleading. They make up their own conditions, which are different than the EPA conditions, and always act disappointed when they can't reproduce the EPA numbers.

Lots of people with R1Ts have gotten way more than the EPA estimate. Just read through this forum. I think I've seem people report better than EPA for the R1S as well, but I haven't paid too much attention to the R1S. The EPA number for the R1S is 316 miles, measured with the 21" tires. This is reduced by 10-15% if you have the 20" AT tires.

I think the Rivian EPA estimates are accurate. But remember the EPA estimate is for a very specific set of driving conditions/speeds. If you drive the same way the EPA assumes, you will get the same number. But your usage may be quite different than that.

If you customarily get less than the EPA mileage rating when driving your existing non-Tesla vehicle, then you will probably get less than the EPA rating for the Rivian. If you customarily get more than the EPA rating, then you will probably get more for the Rivian as well. (I exclude Tesla because they are notoriously inaccurate about their ranges).

In the end, the question you want answered is how many miles will YOU get, and that depends entirely on you. The EPA number is the standardized measure, and you need to adjust that for your specific driving patterns. That adjustment will be similar in any vehicle you drive, because it is accounting for the differences between how you drive and what the EPA assumes. That is why I said if you usually get less than EPA you will also get less for the Rivian. You can't extrapolate the Car and Driver number the same way unless you know the Car and Driver number for all your other vehicles.

 

[richguess]

Agreed. It’s the EPA number v the real world number. But if accurate, it speaks to the range of a highway trip, not mixed driving. And, while faster than the EPA tests, 75 mph on an interstate (5) with speed limits of 65 or 70 mph, a steady 75 mph range test is helpful. It tells you what planning is required. My Ionic5, when driven at those speeds consistently, gets about 80% of EPA range. I get over the EPA range at times around town, with lower speeds and more regenerative breaking.

 

[EzeE1o]

https://www.caranddriver.com/review...0-vs-2022-rivian-r1s-launch-edition-compared/

the article is now on the website

 

[richguess]

Great. I’m not crazy after all (well…)

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