R1T Max Pack + Dual Motor range update from Rivian: 335, 360 and 400 miles range

[rbr19870445]

Unfortunately, Rivian is cooling limited by the original pack design they chose years ago. You can only draw so much heat from a cell when contacting only the top and bottom ends of the cell.

Tesla has a far superior cooling design that provides way more surface area contact for removing heat from individual cells because they contact the long sides of the cells vs. just the top and bottom ends as in the Rivian pack design.

So, Branden Flasch did an interesting video on the thermal capacities with DCFC charging but ultimately, it seems like Rivian has the cooling programmed to flick on only when the pack hits 50 degrees Celsius and charging is rate limited to a certain degree around that temperature. Rivian has supposedly released an update that's helped manage the thermal curve but not sure why the cooling system doesn't turn on earlier to manage.

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[nfrank]

Although the current max pack range numbers are a little lower than hoped, I suspect the real world range might be higher. It's hard to know how much optimization will. happen with the new motors. But there is only so much room for extra batteries on these current designs.

If you want real range - look at what RAM has had to do to deliver it: A 229 kWh battery pack for 500 mile range! That's a BIG BATTERY. (and why I reserved one in case our horse towing needs outgrow our Rivian)

https://jalopnik.com/2024-ram-1500-rev-electric-pickup-hp-tq-towing-range-1850295482

You'd better prepare yourself for that truck to cost at least $120k with a battery like that.

 

[zipzag]

The Max Pack was meant to be 185kWh, Large being 135kWh.
Available capacity has increased a few percent and range has increased, but in terms of expectations initially, range was 314 miles.
The Max Pack expectation math is 185 / 135 * 314 = 430 miles.
The '23 EPA range of a quad large R1T is 328 miles.
Arguably, anything less than 185 / 135 * 328 = 450 miles is disappointing.
The other issues would be better thermal management – a heat pump – and (far) better charging curve at 800 volts, but apparently Max Pack is still 400V (but I haven't seen anything from Rivian on the tech specs.)
Personally, I ordered an R1S quad Max, which was promised "at launch" and I imagine quite a few people have the same pre-order, and the same expectation.

If max pack has ~180 kwh I'm fine with the price and wait. Two more modules will have significantly better real world range than the existing R1T. But more modules for the R1T doesn't explain the the R1S max pack with 390 range.

Rivian adding slightly higher energy density cells and messing with software parameters to get to 400 mile range may not have significantly better real world performance compared to large pack duo. It also possible that higher voltage cells won't have the same longevity as exsisting cells, especially with Rivian's bargain basement thermal design.

If Rivian is adding two modules to the R1T the EPA range will likely be meaningfully over 400 miles.

Anyone know if there are premium NMC 2170 cells that have a higher energy density than Rivian's current offering? Anyone have math showing how the R1S gets to a 390 EPA rating?

 

[zefram47]

If max pack has ~180 kwh I'm fine with the price and wait. Two more modules will have significantly better real world range than the existing R1T. But more modules for the R1T doesn't explain the the R1S max pack with 390 range.

Rivian adding slightly higher energy density cells and messing with software parameters to get to 400 mile range may not have significantly better real world performance compared to large pack duo. It also possible that higher voltage cells won't have the same longevity as exsisting cells, especially with Rivian's bargain basement thermal design.

If Rivian is adding two modules to the R1T the EPA range will likely be meaningfully over 400 miles.

Anyone know if there are premium NMC 2170 cells that have a higher energy density than Rivian's current offering? Anyone have math showing how the R1S gets to a 390 EPA rating?

Each module is 15 kWh. The Large pack has 9 modules and Max was originally supposed to be 12 for 180 kWh. There's only space in the chassis for 11 modules without doing something different, so it's assumed that Max will be 165 kWh unless they've managed to source cells with more capacity since Large pack was originally spec'd.

 

[Dark-Fx]

I have to wonder with max pack if Rivian is simply going with slightly higher power density cells and reducing the buffer.

I'm doubtful of that. The cells currently are 4800mAh rated and I'm not aware of any commercial offerings of the same size cells that exceed 5100mAh (Samsung's limit seems to be 5000mAh right now). I don't think Rivian has room for more cells in the modules they are already shipping. I'm guessing Rivian just was able to get creative with packaging changes with the dual motors. It's possible the new pack is either slightly larger modules or only one additional module with larger capacity. I would be very surprised if their cell count didn't go up by at least 10%.

 

[ironpig]

The Ram battery just seems absurd. I can't stand Stellantis. Didn't the CEO, up until a year ago, say they essentially weren't interested in EVs?

it is absurd. But it just points out what it takes to get long range in a full size pick up right now. For those that really tow long distances this is at least an option, but it’s one way Stellantis can distinguish themselves after being so late to the EV party.

 

[mkg3]

What is not mentioned by Rivian is if there's a Conserve Mode on the dual motor configurations. If they decide not to have that mechanical disconnect on the output shaft of the motors for the dual motor configuration then the difference in range between max and large packs is very small when you are in conserve mode on quad motors.

Isn't the EPA range published already using the conserve mode? And the difference between the quad and dual is that in conserve mode, the latter is running a single motor where as the quad is running two motors - both in FWD mode.

My sense is that the reason 20" wheels+AT tires drops so much more than the other two sizes with all season tires is because the single motor is having to work harder to overcome the rolling resistance and inertia requiring higher energy consumption . The difference percentage is larger for dual and quad setup.

Does R1 get the published range in all purpose mode?

 

[shrink]

Isn't the EPA range published already using the conserve mode? And the difference between the quad and dual is that in conserve mode, the latter is running a single motor where as the quad is running two motors - both in FWD mode.

My sense is that the reason 20" wheels+AT tires drops so much more than the other two sizes with all season tires is because the single motor is having to work harder to overcome the rolling resistance and inertia requiring higher energy consumption . The difference percentage is larger for dual and quad setup.

Does R1 get the published range in all purpose mode?

It was actually a mix of Conserve and Sport mode:

https://dis.epa.gov/otaqpub/display_file.jsp?docid=53765&flag=1

Hey look, that EPA document actually has a vaguely described maintenance schedule, too!

 

[Rivian_Hugh_III]

It’s a 50 mile/17% increase over a large/quad. Not too terrible.

I think it’s 61 more miles: 274 to 335
Also everyone, keep in mind that the rebate goal posts have changed. Rivian now has to keep some prices easily below 80K for those who want the rebate.

 

[Amonte541]

Good morning folks

Been lurking a while and pondering the truck since my buddy received his launch edition last year. New higher prices have given me pause.
I intend to use it off road quite a bit, and actually do not need the range...esp for the increased price.

Noticed today the configurator states the "standard battery is not available with the offroad packeage"...any thoughts on this?
Are they never going to offer it...perhaps because the different cells dont fit...or is it just so they can move trucks now...given the SR battery not expected til next year?

Thanks for being a great community!

AJ

 

[Dark-Fx]

Anyone know if there are premium NMC 2170 cells that have a higher energy density than Rivian's current offering? Anyone have math showing how the R1S gets to a 390 EPA rating?

Apparently Munro's teardown shows the Rivian's current Large pack is 9 modules in series with 72P12S of Samsung INR21700-50G cells, which are according to the datasheet I just found, are 5000mAh, but only guaranteed to have 4900mAh when new. (so forget all the stuff I said about 4800). If nominal is 3.63V, that means there is ~138.3 kWh to ~141.1kWh in the pack.

Since the modules themselves appear to be ~43.5V nominal based on this info, they can't just stack more of them in series without the voltage of the pack overall increasing. So the max pack likely has a different arrangement of cells. Doing some math, working backwards from efficiency, and assuming they are using the same cells, seems like the two most likely candidates could be:
9 modules, 84P12S(24x21), 164.7kWh, 392VNom, 9072 Cells
11 modules, 80P10S,(25x16), 159.7kWh, 399VNom, 8800 Cells

 

[shrink]

I did notice the range for 20” wheels was decreased on the large pack quad motor too down to 274 from 289.

Thanks for pointing this out. I noticed it, too, and am confused. I wonder what's going on with that. A recent OTA even opened up access to more of the usable capacity and increased range.

It is possible this range rating is for newer builds only? We need an explanation for this.

 

[Oneup008]

The 400v architecture bothers me. The competition is out and ahead while Rivian plays with the options and in-house manufacturing to squeeze profit margins. If they don't stay competitive with quality they will lose.

 

[Thud]

Looks like I'll be sticking with the one and only large-pack configuration that will have any sort of tax benefit... Silver, dual-motor, large pack, 21" road.
This shall henceforth be known as the "IRS Edition."

 

[CappyJax]

The 400v architecture bothers me. The competition is out and ahead while Rivian plays with the options and in-house manufacturing to squeeze profit margins. If they don't stay competitive with quality they will lose.

Me too. I want to range so I don't have to charge as often, but when it comes time to charge, it will be ridiculous and make this vehicle pointless for road trips.

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