? Rivian Adopts Tesla NACS Standard! (Adapters in 2024, Standard Charging Port in 2025)

[zer0t]

who needs RAN when you can have access to all the tesla supercharger? They might as well stop making RAN

And RAN will be using NACS format?

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[MDH]

I’m not exactly sure what you’re saying. 20” AT DM is rated at 305. Whereas QM is 274. With 21s it’s 400 on DM & ~320 on QM. There is no 30% increase in battery. The Max Pack isn’t a 180kW battery. It’s 165. The difference is that there is no Conserve mode to squeak out more miles on DM. It’s default in Conserve mode and switches to AWD under cases of extreme acceleration. On QM there is a conserve mode and you CAN get up to 350. Which is where the “extra” 50 miles comes in. Default conserve on DM is 400. QM conserve is 350.

I understand the importance in range. But with reduced range due to towing AND the winter, you’re looking at 30-50 extra miles and that’s it. And unless you have pre-March Max Pack pricing on the R1T, that 10K is an INSANE price.

Spot on!

 

[zymolysis]

Um, okay, then you're paying for that build out when you could have been reinvesting into the products you actually sell.

Nobody is going to buy a Rivian and say, I bought it for access to the RAN network.

" Um, okay, then you're paying for that build out when you could have been reinvesting into the products you actually sell. "
Rivian has had billions sitting in the bank for years. One can only throw so much money, at any given time, at a problem, while achieving optimal results. Since Rivian has stated that they will begin turning a profit next year, investing a small part of their cash on hand into RAN chargers (which, hopefully, will also turn a profit) would be a good use of their money (and enhance their brand). The RAN network, once it has become substantial, will also increase the book value of the company. I have seen an estimate (by at least one observer) that Tesla's SC network is worth $100 billion.

 

[zer0t]

Rivian just sent out official email…

I didn't get one yet.

 

[MP3Mike]

I disagree with all the folks talking about focusing on remote locations for RAN. I think RAN should go full steam ahead. This is a great strategic move by Rivian since their RAN network deployment is delayed. Sign a 5 year contract with tesla to utilize their SC while you build out your own network. Once the network is built out, you drop your contract with tesla or you have much better negotiating power on the renewal with tesla . Either way its a win, but there is certainly no need to just rely on SC, and from my experience, RAN chargers offer a great experience, comparable to tesla SC. So why cede this potentially lucrative business model to Tesla.

Who said anything about relying just on the Supercharger network? There will be plenty of other chargers built out by other companies being funded by NEVI. (And NEVI funding can't be used for the remote locations.)

I would say that Rivian should focus on remote locations at least for now, as that is where it is needed the most right now. Then after they have that covered they can come back and fill in the rest of the network if they think it is worth it. Once the Superchargers have been made available adding a RAN site near a Tesla Supercharger site won't likely add much value to a Rivian owner.

 

[MidnightRivian]

Vehicles built with the CCS charge ports will get a free NACS adapter, with additional adapters available for purchase in our Gear Shop

 

[Dark-Fx]

This will be all good.

If you want to turn the Supercharger Network into the CCS Networks.

If you want the stations to simply work without worry or fuss then you don't want leadership by committee.

Bizarre assertion.

 

[MDH]

That’s a very important point. From VW’s perspective it is a sunk cost that otherwise would have been a fine, not an investment. They certainly have no interest at all in operating the network. Therefore it should not have any bearing on them moving forward, although it may take some time for them to come to what will be an obvious conclusion that they must move to NACS on vehicles.

VW stated they are staying with CCS. For how long, who knows.

 

[Rob Stark]

And RAN will be using NACS format?

Moving forward from 2025 all Rivians will have native NACS port. Only a tiny percentage of Rivians moving forward will have CCS ports.

So of course RAN will be moving to NACS.

 

[Tahoe Man]

" Um, okay, then you're paying for that build out when you could have been reinvesting into the products you actually sell. "
Rivian has had billions sitting in the bank for years. One can only throw so much money, at any given time, at a problem, while achieving optimal results. Since Rivian has stated that they will begin turning a profit next year, investing a small part of their cash on hand into RAN chargers (which, hopefully, will also turn a profit) would be a good use of their money (and enhance their brand). The RAN network, once it has become substantial, will also increase the book value of the company. I have seen an estimate (by at least one observer) that Tesla's SC network is worth $100 billion.

Rivian has a cash burn issue. The equity has been a disaster and demand for the R1T is already declining. The last thing they need is to try and be some energy provider powerhouse.

The supercharger network could be worth that much because it's very tightly integrated with their vehicles. It just works, and works well and helps their vehicles sell. Tesla has critical mass in the energy space, Rivian is far far from that. They shouldn't try to be something they're not.

 

[scottf200]

Anecdotal for sure, but this does make me think about an experience I had last time I was camping in the Mojave.

I noticed a lone Model S at the EA side of Baker with me. Apparently, the driver was rear ended and kept his car, but because it was a branded title now, Tesla revoked his access to the SC network, so he had to charge via CCS networks with an adapter.

It will be interesting to see what cars are "allowed" to charge on the SC network and what type of second class treatment others will get. Considering this guy was locked out of the network with a Tesla, it doesn't take much for my mind to imagine a future where us early adopters are told something about "safety" and "encouraged" to buy a newer model through lack of network access.

Savlaged cars are allowed now after inspection/testing.
https://www.google.com/search?q=superchargering++salvaged+tesla+cars

 

[MDH]

Um, okay, then you're paying for that build out when you could have been reinvesting into the products you actually sell.

Nobody is going to buy a Rivian and say, I bought it for access to the RAN network.

Exactly, the RAN at full build-out will be a drop in the charging network bucket. How many states don't even have one now? Save the money and slow the billion dollar quarterly loses. We need you to stay in business.

 

[HighVoltOverland]

Savlaged cars are allowed now after inspection/testing.
https://www.google.com/search?q=superchargering++salvaged+tesla+cars

From this links "As long as the vehicle is repaired by the company directly"

That stipulation doesn't do well to quell my initial concerns, who's to say whether or not someone can get their insurance to cover that/ would be aware of that when holding onto a vehicle, seems like a very arbitrary requirement, rather than just having some sort of re-inspection process.

This is like the 30 thousand dollar Tesla that exists/ed.
Technically yes, they were made, but it wasn't the experience for virtually anyone real.

 

[Tahoe Man]

I would say that Rivian should focus on remote locations at least for now, as that is where it is needed the most right now. Then after they have that covered they can come back and fill in the rest of the network if they think it is worth it. Once the Superchargers have been made available adding a RAN site near a Tesla Supercharger site won't likely add much value to a Rivian owner.

Why should they even focus on remote locations? One way to lose a lot of money on DCFC operations is to install it where hardly anyone uses it. The demand fees alone will kill you and L2 barely adds any value.

 

[theyoungone]

I was operating under the assumption that the R1S max pack was to be 180kWh battery gross, which is what I last saw published this spring. I haven't seen any information that this was revised to 165 kWh. (?) I stand corrected if this is the case.

I also thought it was just a matter of time before a similar Conserve mode was added on the DM version, which has had less time in the development cycle and should offer similar efficiency gains once the software was optimized. This should push the range to be at least the same percentage as the increase in battery size with the DM efficiencies.

Bottom line for me is that my reservation is almost certainly a year (or more) away for delivery, and if Rivian can offer 25-30% more range for $10K at that time, that is actually far from "insane". I would be delighted to drive all the way to Minnepolis or St. Louis without worrying about charging until my destination, plus fewer charging cycles on the battery and I can tow with far less headache. If I keep the truck for 10 years, then the charge for this convenience is only $1k per year, with the upside of a likely higher resale value.

I definitely understand your sentiment. Specifically seeing as I once held it. I also apologize if you thought I was calling you insane. That definitely wasn’t meant to be pointed or an insult to you.

Many here much smarter than me have done the math and there’s not enough room for the modules it would take for 180kW. An additional module would fit however at 165kW.

The DM R1S isn’t rated for 400 either. It’s rated for 390 miles on 21s. And if I’m being honest I just don’t see them developing a “Conserve” mode for DM either. The beauty of quad is that there’s 4 motors. Unfortunately dual is just the two and decoupling one means there’s only one left to drive the vehicle. They may have SOME optimization left in the tank but seeing how much they’ve optimized with quad, dual will receive these upgrades off the bat. The 10-15% you’re getting I truly believe are it. It definitely won’t be much more than 20. I’m sure for tow mode it’ll be even less or just on par because I believe by default tow mode (per their official documentation) automatically engages both motors.

I wanted a Max Pack, but cost wise, once I add everything I want, it’s literally cheaper to go with a quad. And don’t me time started on how conserve chews through tires like a shredder.

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