New R1S bricked

[SoCal Rob]

I think your comparison to a truck from the 1960s is ridiculous. So that's our benchmark now?
I would not have my wife drive my 9 month old son in a 1960s truck that was in such bad shape that the rear axle could completely break off by simply driving it 15 mph.

I’m not comparing a Rivian to a truck from the ‘60s. I’m comparing the type of catastrophic failure that would have had essentially the same results then and now. I wrote that to illustrate that mechanical failures (then) are often obvious and we wouldn’t ask why a vehicle with an obvious mechanical failure came to a stop suddenly and can no longer move under its own power. A system failure in a modern vehicle (now) can have the same effect even though the vehicle LOOKS fine to the naked eye. So, if one of your ancestors had a catastrophic failure in a new almost-purely mechanical vehicle they wouldn’t be demanding that the vehicle continue on when it clearly couldn’t.

You can’t always engineer a way to deal with a specific catastrophic failure or cascade of failures. These failures may not be obvious in today’s vehicles. Without knowing the details of Rivian’s capabilities and system architecture during whatever failure(s) your Rivian experienced when your wife was driving it, it may be that demanding the vehicle continue on would be like your ancestor in their then-new truck demanding that it give them more warning/continue to move when it clearly couldn’t.

Hopefully Rivian can learn from these incidents and implement a more graceful failure mode. Time will tell…

edit:typo

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[SoCal Rob]

You're thinking about this from a technological stand point, I'm talking from an Owner stand point.

I’m talking about it from the standpoint of an owner of a Rivian AND the owner of a vehicle which was equally complex but tilted more towards the mechanical. On our LR3, if your brake switch failed it could result in a Christmas tree’s worth of failure lights. So many that I don’t remember them all, but I seem to recall it involved transmission fault, suspension fault, stability fault, and more. If the switch which detects you pressing the brake pedal failed! That’s on a vehicle from 2006. The increasing complexity of electronic systems on vehicles with lots of capability is nothing new.

Right now you don't own your vehicle, Rivian has complete control over it, you have to trust them.

Which of today’s manufacturers makes a vehicle with similar capabilities that you don’t have to trust?

As far as your analogy, that's just one of the many reasons I can't stand the trend of modern vehicles. They are making people too reliant of driver assist nannies.
"look John I don't have to put my vehicle in park, I can save .15 seconds by just getting out"
Stuff like this is probably why pedestrian deaths are at a 40 year high.

Here in the U.S., I’m pretty sure that driver assist nannies are a result of government mandates and IIHS testing plus manufacturers trying to minimize liability. Based on my experiences, any increase in pedestrian deaths is probably a combination of distracted driving, distracted pedestrians, and increasingly-high hoods. (Seriously, have you seen the sheer height of modern full-size pickup and SUV hoods?)

I want a R1T, but they are too reliant on software right now.

What new vehicle with similar capabilities isn’t? If we want vehicles without software we are probably limited to the used market.

 

[izgoy]

Our R1T didn't brick but we had it at the SC for 3 weeks while they were trying to figure out why we were getting a "headlight system not working". We had it in for about 4 days and they said they fixed it. On the way home from picking it up it came on again, and again.....and again.

So, they came out and picked up the truck and dropped an R1T off for us to drive while they looked at it. After a week of having it, they said they had to escalate it to a "super tech" that would be able to fix it. After another week they said "We are flying in an engineer/technician from Normal, Il to figure it out. They let us know that they had to use an endoscope to trace the wiring through the whole truck and found a wire that was shorting out that aspect of the system. The great thing is....they kept us up to date on everything happening.....and we got all sensors replaced (they thought that was the issue. We only had 714 miles on it at the time.

Don't get discouraged....Rivian will make it right! If they would have had ours for for another week, they offered to make our car payment.

Did they at least use general anesthesia?

 

[Goose]

I’m talking about it from the standpoint of an owner of a Rivian AND the owner of a vehicle which was equally complex but tilted more towards the mechanical. On our LR3, if your brake switch failed it could result in a Christmas tree’s worth of failure lights. So many that I don’t remember them all, but I seem to recall it involved transmission fault, suspension fault, stability fault, and more. If the switch which detects you pressing the brake pedal failed! That’s on a vehicle from 2006. The increasing complexity of electronic systems on vehicles with lots of capability is nothing new.

Which of today’s manufacturers makes a vehicle with similar capabilities that you don’t have to trust?

Here in the U.S., I’m pretty sure that driver assist nannies are a result of government mandates and IIHS testing plus manufacturers trying to minimize liability. Based on my experiences, any increase in pedestrian deaths is probably a combination of distracted driving, distracted pedestrians, and increasingly-high hoods. (Seriously, have you seen the sheer height of modern full-size pickup and SUV hoods?)

What new vehicle with similar capabilities isn’t? If we want vehicles without software we are probably limited to the used market.

Land Rover, doesn't really have a reputation for reliability, I wouldn't compare the Rivian to them. You mention capability a couple times, why is that an indicator of complexity? I would argue a F150 Raptor is just as capable, yet doesn't stop in the middle of the street unless something literally blows up.

The OP's case is worrying. They have a quad motor vehicle that decided to protect itself over the occupants. If a motor bricked why isn't Rivian allowing you to drive on the other available motors to get to safety? It should have given warning chimes and codes and warned to get over to safety ASAP, not stop dead.

There are of course multiple facets to the increase in pedestrian deaths, however, I blame the self driving and driver assist nannies that people are blindly trusting to protect them.

An argument like this when a fanbase is this passionate is probably best had over a beer versus on the internet.

OP, I hope you get some answers and apologies from Rivian execs for this. As a husband and father this scares me.

 

[SoCal Rob]

Land Rover, doesn't really have a reputation for reliability, I wouldn't compare the Rivian to them. You mention capability a couple times, why is that an indicator of complexity? I would argue a F150 Raptor is just as capable, yet doesn't stop in the middle of the street unless something literally blows up.

I tend to use examples when discussing things and our recently-sold Land Rover (which made it to 249,000 miles while spending more time off-road than most Jeeps, towing, and even being used as a tractor) had an air suspension, was targeted at adventuring, and was in a similar near-luxury class. I‘m not arguing and I don’t come here to argue, but the main reason I think complexity is part of capability is because in this class of vehicle it typically is. I don’t think a Raptor is as capable as an R1S on multiple fronts so we’ll have to disagree on that. Even so a Raptor is FAR more mechanically complex than a Rivian when you look at the number of moving parts. Modern EVs are inherently different from ICE vehicles with less mechanical complexity and more electronic complexity. So if you look at EVs I think you’ll find that they suffer different problems. As I mentioned in a couple earlier posts major failures in an EV can be far less obvious than in ICE but every bit as crippling.

The OP's case is worrying. They have a quad motor vehicle that decided to protect itself over the occupants. If a motor bricked why isn't Rivian allowing you to drive on the other available motors to get to safety? It should have given warning chimes and codes and warned to get over to safety ASAP, not stop dead.

You’re making a huge assumption in saying that the vehicle decided to protect itself over the occupants. I’ve worked on complex projects over the years and the most challenging part can be dealing with, ”All you have to do is…” from people who don’t like what they’re hearing while also being unaware of the complexity and background. As if it never occurred to Rivian engineers that giving warnings as quickly and prominently as possible would be a good idea in a situation like this.

We don’t know the root cause of the issue, what system(s) it affected, and whether the system architecture could possibly allow a different outcome. We weren’t in the car when this happened and the OP wasn’t either. None of us know how many warnings were given, what types they were, or how long they went on.

You seem unwilling to accept the fact that there can be a failure which the vehicle literally cannot move past because something critical has failed. The displays and some other systems are powered by the 12V battery while the drivetrain is powered by the high voltage battery. Something could’ve gone wrong which caused the high voltage battery to quickly lose power and there‘s nothing a functioning display and warning chime can do to change that. Kind of like a transmission dying on an ICE car, everything else would seem fine but that doesn’t change the fact that there’s no propulsion. Given that there’s nothing between the Rivian’s front motors and tires which allows coasting, it’s very different than an ICE where the transmission can be placed in neutral. I don’t know if the vehicle could disconnect the rear motors with the functionality remaining after the main failure.

There are of course multiple facets to the increase in pedestrian deaths, however, I blame the self driving and driver assist nannies that people are blindly trusting to protect them.

An argument like this when a fanbase is this passionate is probably best had over a beer versus on the internet.

OP, I hope you get some answers and apologies from Rivian execs for this. As a husband and father this scares me.

You seem to write that complex problems always have simple solutions so I can see why you think that about pedestrian deaths.

Again, I’m not in an argument, but I am in a discussion. If you want to argue then I’ll let you continue on with others.

If you’re scared by this scenario, then you should probably only buy a vehicle which cannot possibly suffer failures which render it un-drivable as quickly and which has crash test scores at least as good as the Rivian. I’m curious to see what you end up buying…

 

[Bruins06]

We weren’t in the car when this happened and the OP wasn’t either. None of us know how many warnings were given, what types they were, or how long they went on.

I've posted this before, the R1S made it about 30 ft away from my driveway. How long do you think it takes a vehicle to travel 30 ft? How long do you suspect warnings will go off during that time? I don't have to be in the vehicle myself to know what happened, my wife explained it to me perfectly well.
And now I have confirmation from Rivian that this was not human error, they've now told me what the critical issue is.
I'm done posting here.

 

[usulio]

...
You’re making a huge assumption in saying that the vehicle decided to protect itself over the occupants. I’ve worked on complex projects over the years and the most challenging part can be dealing with, ”All you have to do is…” from people who don’t like what they’re hearing while also being unaware of the complexity and background. As if it never occurred to Rivian engineers that giving warnings as quickly and prominently as possible would be a good idea in a situation like this.
...
You seem unwilling to accept the fact that there can be a failure which the vehicle literally cannot move past because something critical has failed. The displays and some other systems are powered by the 12V battery while the drivetrain is powered by the high voltage battery. Something could’ve gone wrong which caused the high voltage battery to quickly lose power and there‘s nothing a functioning display and warning chime can do to change that. Kind of like a transmission dying on an ICE car, everything else would seem fine but that doesn’t change the fact that there’s no propulsion. Given that there’s nothing between the Rivian’s front motors and tires which allows coasting, it’s very different than an ICE where the transmission can be placed in neutral. I don’t know if the vehicle could disconnect the rear motors with the functionality remaining after the main failure.
...

Good points. But, I would point out that these complexities are all design decisions. It was decided to design the vehicle in such a way that putting it in neutral is impossible if any of a number of things go wrong. I'm not an auto engineer and I don't have insight into the tradeoffs, but these kinds of safety and reliability things were clearly not top priority.

 

[jimmyb2]

I've posted this before, the R1S made it about 30 ft away from my driveway. How long do you think it takes a vehicle to travel 30 ft? How long do you suspect warnings will go off during that time? I don't have to be in the vehicle myself to know what happened, my wife explained it to me perfectly well.
And now I have confirmation from Rivian that this was not human error, they've now told me what the critical issue is.
I'm done posting here.

Would you be okay with telling us what Rivian said the "critical issue" was/is before you go?

 

[Tahoe Man]

I think you need to take a few lessons on reading comprehension because no one here told him he was being too vocal. No one told him not to be upset either. What was said, as you clearly missed it, is that forums like these are going to concentrate negative stories and downplay positive ones. Someone who gets their truck and absolutely loves it isn't super motivated to come online and post about it. Someone who is having a problem with a brand new truck is motivated to either get help online or to vent about it.

Then there are people like you who just hang around here to spread negativity. Every single post of yours is taking a dump on Rivian and it makes me wonder why you're even here. If you're not dogging the stock price it's implying that all Rivians are bad. Don't you have other things to do? Maybe your time would be better spent on a Tahoe forum talking about how great that thing is. Probably not because I can't think of anything positive to say about a Tahoe.

Sorry you're wrong, forums like this display the usual hedonics adaption psychology, in my opinion. Seems obvious to me that generally buyers especially in expensive markets such as Rivian want to prolong their positive emotions so they form social connections to share their pleasure. But negative experiences devalues the truck so social comparisons aren't always brought to the fore, IE the tonneau cover fiasco.

 

[Donald Stanfield]

Sorry you're wrong, forums like this display the usual hedonics adaption psychology, in my opinion. Seems obvious to me that generally buyers especially in expensive markets such as Rivian want to prolong their positive emotions so they form social connections to share their pleasure. But negative experiences devalues the truck so social comparisons aren't always brought to the fore, IE the tonneau cover fiasco.

No I'm not wrong, the majority of threads with traction in here are complaint threads. Again, why are you here? Most car forums focus on problems and discussions of problems. We've had at least ten threads about the lack of features like CarPlay, at least ten on the tonneau as well. You don't think the tonneau cover thing was and still is being discussed here, then I was spot on about your reading comprehension.

 

[True Grit]

So much anger here today

 

[Count Orlok]

I've posted this before, the R1S made it about 30 ft away from my driveway. How long do you think it takes a vehicle to travel 30 ft? How long do you suspect warnings will go off during that time? I don't have to be in the vehicle myself to know what happened, my wife explained it to me perfectly well.
And now I have confirmation from Rivian that this was not human error, they've now told me what the critical issue is.
I'm done posting here.

He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster.

~Nietzsche


or to quote Count Orlok, stick around and let us learn from what happened.

 

[SoCal Rob]

I've posted this before, the R1S made it about 30 ft away from my driveway. How long do you think it takes a vehicle to travel 30 ft? How long do you suspect warnings will go off during that time? I don't have to be in the vehicle myself to know what happened, my wife explained it to me perfectly well.
And now I have confirmation from Rivian that this was not human error, they've now told me what the critical issue is.
I'm done posting here.

I apologize. I completely forgot about the 30 feet detail and I was just writing about the time part mentioned in other posts I read earlier today. I don’t think I ever said it was human error, I’m not trying to place blame, I don’t think that a vehicle becoming un-drivable is ever a good thing and I don’t think that my posts expressed any of those things. I have no problem admitting I was wrong if I did, and I’ll edit (with a note) if that’s the case.

I think it would be helpful to know what Rivian said the critical issue was because that speaks to whether Rivian could have handled it better and, more importantly, whether they can and will make improvements so it doesn’t happen to others in the future.

Thank you for considering this.

 

[Bruins06]

I apologize. I completely forgot about the 30 feet detail and I was just writing about the time part mentioned in other posts I read earlier today. I don’t think I ever said it was human error, I’m not trying to place blame, I don’t think that a vehicle becoming un-drivable is ever a good thing and I don’t think that my posts expressed any of those things. I have no problem admitting I was wrong if I did, and I’ll edit (with a note) if that’s the case.

I think it would be helpful to know what Rivian said the critical issue was because that speaks to whether Rivian could have handled it better and, more importantly, whether they can and will make improvements so it doesn’t happen to others in the future.

Thank you for considering this.

Thank you for the apology. It was a drive unit failure, it is currently getting replaced.

 

[Kaprice]

So, you posted a highly negative reply to reprimand someone for making a highly negative reply???

I think you need to take a few lessons on reading comprehension because no one here told him he was being too vocal. No one told him not to be upset either. What was said, as you clearly missed it, is that forums like these are going to concentrate negative stories and downplay positive ones. Someone who gets their truck and absolutely loves it isn't super motivated to come online and post about it. Someone who is having a problem with a brand new truck is motivated to either get help online or to vent about it.

Then there are people like you who just hang around here to spread negativity. Every single post of yours is taking a dump on Rivian and it makes me wonder why you're even here. If you're not dogging the stock price it's implying that all Rivians are bad. Don't you have other things to do? Maybe your time would be better spent on a Tahoe forum talking about how great that thing is. Probably not because I can't think of anything positive to say about a Tahoe.

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