EVgo autocharge+ and Rivian

[Cactus]

Although 95% of my charging will be at home, I want to set up some accounts at charging networks since we don't exactly know when we can charge at Tesla's SuperChargers. At the EVgo website, it looks like autocharge+ (seems most similar to Tesla: just pull up, plug-in and charge) is not available for Rivians?

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[VSG]

I want to set up some accounts at charging networks since we don't exactly know when we can charge at Tesla's SuperChargers

Yes, set up accounts on all the networks. The accounts are free.

At the EVgo website, it looks like autocharge+ (seems most similar to Tesla: just pull up, plug-in and charge) is not available for Rivians?

Correct. The only plug and charge experience for Rivians is currently on the RAN network.

We DO know that the earliest we will have access to Tesla adapters is Spring 2024, and because Tesla now has to make adapters for at least 5 manufacturers including Rivian, there are maybe a million people waiting for these. There will be more 100,000 R1 vehicles on the road by Spring of next year, so even if things go according to plan it will take a long time for Rivian to distribute those adapters.

Short answer, don't count on having access to superchargers anytime soon. Setting up accounts for all the networks you might encounter on a trip is an essential step to take now - I did this even before I got my R1T. I've only had to use a few of them, but if I ever need them I will have the account and the app on my phone ready to go.

 

[Cactus]

Yes, set up accounts on all the networks. The accounts are free.

Correct. The only plug and charge experience for Rivians is currently on the RAN network.

We DO know that the earliest we will have access to Tesla adapters is Spring 2024, and because Tesla now has to make adapters for at least 5 manufacturers including Rivian, there are maybe a million people waiting for these. There will be more 100,000 R1 vehicles on the road by Spring of next year, so even if things go according to plan it will take a long time for Rivian to distribute those adapters.

Short answer, don't count on having access to superchargers anytime soon. Setting up accounts for all the networks you might encounter on a trip is an essential step to take now - I did this even before I got my R1T. I've only had to use a few of them, but if I ever need them I will have the account and the app on my phone ready to go.

I wonder why many other EV manufacturers have access to autocharge+ and Rivian doesn’t?

 

[VSG]

I don't know. I suspect Rivian would have to pay a licensing fee or possibly a per-transaction charge. But I don't find it to be a big deal - swiping in the app only adds a few seconds to the time it takes to start a charge.

EVGo will send you a free NFC card which you can use to initiate a charge. I keep that in my truck just in case, but I haven't used it yet. I'll have to make a detour to try that out before my next trip to be sure it works.

The benefit of plug and charge is really just the elimination of one point of failure (the app). EA for example has had problems initiating a charge with the app. If the app fails, EA can always remotely start the charge for you if you call them, but that adds about 5 minutes to the process. I have only charged at EVGo twice, and didn't have a problem either time.

That said, the RAN chargers have plug and charge and that's really nice, but it does take 30 seconds or so for the charge to start so it is a convenience rather than a huge time saver.

 

[tjmsquared]

Although 95% of my charging will be at home, I want to set up some accounts at charging networks since we don't exactly know when we can charge at Tesla's SuperChargers. At the EVgo website, it looks like autocharge+ (seems most similar to Tesla: just pull up, plug-in and charge) is not available for Rivians?

I think the answer is that Rivian does something unusual with the certificates that they use to authenticate a charging session. I don't remember the details, but I know Out Of Spec had a video recently saying that Rivian was the only manufacturer that did their own thing with charging certificate authentication.

I've probably got some of the details wrong, but I think that's the gist of why it won't work with EVgo. As an asside, I've got the EVgo card (linked to my credit card) and it starts up the charging session quickly. Not as good as EVgo autocharge, but since I don't use it frequently, it's not a big deal for me.

 

[Dark-Fx]

I wonder why many other EV manufacturers have access to autocharge+ and Rivian doesn’t?

Autocharge+ works off identifying the vehicle MAC address since that's one of the only things that's guaranteed. I've heard that every Rivian sends the same MAC, which would be unusual, but impossible to correlate it with any specific vehicle/person. Other manufactures randomize the MAC address and those won't work either.

These things are typically done for privacy reasons, to stop other charging companies from being able to track you without your consent. Obviously that's defeated in situations where you need an account to charge though.

 

[Zoidz]

Autocharge+ works off identifying the vehicle MAC address since that's one of the only things that's guaranteed. I've heard that every Rivian sends the same MAC, which would be unusual, but impossible to correlate it with any specific vehicle/person. Other manufactures randomize the MAC address and those won't work either.

These things are typically done for privacy reasons, to stop other charging companies from being able to track you without your consent. Obviously that's defeated in situations where you need an account to charge though.

This is just one example of why NACS needed to be controlled by an independent standards body. NACS is "just a plug" but no, it's really a lot more than that. WIthout specific protocols for every manufacturer to comply with, it would become/continue to be the Tower Of Babel.

 

[Cactus]

Hmm. From the website, it Looks like EVgo is a goose egg near me. ? Sigh.. Charging network growing pains.

Not to extoll the virtues of Tesla's network, but there's >64 Superchargers in Scottsdale (I stopped doing math at 64 SCs). LOL.
That's OK. I charge at home most of the time anyway.

For travel, I just looked at the EVgo map. From Phx to San Diego, there's a long stretch of I-10 without EVgo chargers. Hope they build them s00n. I would prefer to use EVgo rather than the dumpster fire known as Electrify America. But I guess I better sign up with EA, too.

 

[azbill]

Hmm. From the website, it Looks like EVgo is a goose egg near me. ? Sigh.. Charging network growing pains.

Not to extoll the virtues of Tesla's network, but there's >64 Superchargers in Scottsdale (I stopped doing math at 64 SCs). LOL.
That's OK. I charge at home most of the time anyway.

For travel, I just looked at the EVgo map. From Phx to San Diego, there's a long stretch of I-10 without EVgo chargers. Hope they build them s00n. I would prefer to use EVgo rather than the dumpster fire known as Electrify America. But I guess I better sign up with EA, too.

EVGO has a good site in Goodyear along I-10 on Litchfield Road. Good alternative to EA in Buckeye.

They have a bunch of other new sites in North Phoenix and the East Valley, just not Scottsdale. But as you state, not outside of the urban areas.

 

[pc500]

Autocharge+ is not as "secure" but is fine in the context of the risk and low value of the good being sold. I'm sure Rivian would prefer to do the certificate-based negotiation with EVGO, and I don't know why they haven't got around to it. You can likely enroll for autocharge+ independent of Rivian.

This is not much different than wifi on an airplane. You can "steal" someone's session by cloning their mac address. But does it happen? No.

 

[Dark-Fx]

This is not much different than wifi on an airplane. You can "steal" someone's session by cloning their mac address. But does it happen? No.

Really? I used to do it all the time. Unsecured Wifi is exceptionally easy. CCS connectors are a little harder, because the Homeplug Phy adapters aren't very common and you'd have to hijack your own connection if you can't reprogram the MAC in your vehicle.

 

[pc500]

Really? I used to do it all the time. Wifi is exceptionally easy.

We have a hacker

This aside, the difficulty (today) of cloning mac addresses on EVs and the effort required to do so, and the cost (they would just refund the fraud), likely doesn't exceed what a gas station sees with stolen credit cards. It's like the early days of clonable garage door openers.

It's security as a business decision. In time it'll improve, but in the short term they can support most any car.

Soon, a car will randomize mac addresses like your laptop does these days on each connection, and break it

 

[SeaGeo]

I'm sure Rivian would prefer to do the certificate-based negotiation with EVGO, and I don't know why they haven't got around to it. You can likely enroll for autocharge+ independent of Rivian.

As @Dark-Fx noted, the issue is the truck's don't have a consistent MAC address (at least that's my understanding as well) so there isn't a constant value to pair with EVGO.

It's also not necessarily that Rivian "hasn't gotten around to it," but that EVGO hasn't implemented a certificate based plug and charge. Just not sure who "they" are in your post.

 

[pc500]

As @Dark-Fx noted, the issue is the truck's don't have a consistent MAC address (at least that's my understanding as well) so there isn't a constant value to pair with EVGO.

It's also not necessarily that Rivian "hasn't gotten around to it," but that EVGO hasn't implemented a certificate based plug and charge. Just not sure who "they" are in your post.

It's intentionally non-specific, but I would argue its both. They did something with enhanced security to support GM, and I'd imagine the same is possible with Rivian.

At the end of the day, the whole plug and charge thing is a bit disappointing. This is mostly because certificate management has to pass thru the OEM, and it's not possible for the owner of the car to signup with a charging network directly and present their identity keys or certificate. It's be really nice if compliant vehicles could be self-enrolled in the charging networks app without needing a software or OEM coorperation.

This is intentional from a business standpoint, I'm sure, but it is annoying. For example, the OEMs want to control billing (IE Ford's plug and charge with EA), and they skim money off the top of the rates of the product dispensed and don't let you enroll in the discounted monthly rate clubs. You can't pair your own charging network account and have it billed directly.

 

[Dark-Fx]

They did something with enhanced security to support GM, and I'd imagine the same is possible with Rivian.

I don't think this is true, I think they just made the integration easier for GM customers versus more secure. You can add arbitrary GM VINs into your EVGo app and start the enrollment process, but the VIN doesn't actually matter since it's still the MAC address that is in the communications with the charger. If you have a "myGM" account you could also start the enrollment through any of the GM apps but you don't have to do it that way. I think that's the only difference.

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