Validate my justification to convince wife

[BigSkies]

There is zero financial justification for buying a Rivian. If you’re trying to justify this versus what you’d buy in 5 years, I think it’s safe to assume that quality EV’s will be bit more affordable and with more options by then. Even factoring in the tax credit. You also have to factor in any returns from investments you’d see on that money in the mean time.

Now if you’re going down the financial rabbit hole, the lowest cost of ownership car would be something like a Prius. Obviously, you’re already financially justifying something more expensive than a Prius. So you and your wife need to make some tough decisions on how much more you’re willing to spend over the lowest cost option. It is a tough decision, but you should go into it being honest with yourself and your family about how much it costs and how it impacts other life priorities. Not with an eye over imagined savings compared with a hypothetical purchase in 5 years.

And yes, the Rivian is a super-cool vehicle, and it’s completely okay to want it. I somehow justified buying one, even though it is completely out of character for me and not inline with my financial goals.

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[Bmitch24]

Buying a car is always a dumb financial decision.

however, replacing a car you hate driving with one you can say “look dear, it was ON SALE!” is prudent and wise. Plus it has tiny running costs, is way faster, and way cooler.

Both of these statements are spot on. Buying a new car cannot be financially justified, but the QX60 is a dog that needs to be put down. My wife was so committed to that idea that she didn't get the oil changed for 2+ years and blew the engine. If you had the same commitment, once the engine on that QX60 is trash, the "value" proposition on the Rivian goes way up relative to other even remotely similar options.

 

[Count Orlok]

Ask her this, "how did we justify buying a luxury SUV when we bought the Infinity (as opposed to buying an econo-box nissan)?"

 

[mkg3]

I have a Dec 2021 R1S reservation for $78,800 and I signed the BPA to also qualify for the $7500 rebate, bringing my net price to ~ $71k. It will cost me around $99k now for a similar configuration because of the post Mar 2021 price increase and because I would have to add the all-terrain upgrade to try and mirror my current configuration as much as possible. And no rebate. So about a $28k difference.

Now here's the conundrum. We don't really need a new car. I would love to replace our 2017 Infiniti QX60, but its paid off and running fine. Hate driving that thing, but I also have my paid-off 2020 Model 3 "sleeper" performance and my wife and I drive both 50:50. I had put a deposit down on the R1S thinking that we would replace the QX by the time we get delivery, but my wife was never completely on board and definitely isn't now either. She's not into cars, and yes, we probably can spend our hard-earned $s on other things or maybe just save more. But I really want the R1S! And now I have a guide assigned and need to confirm my configuration.

I'm thinking about approaching this from a financial perspective and explaining to her that in the long run getting the Rivian at the pre-March 2021 pricing, with the $7500 rebate, is an opportunity that we will never get again. I'm also thinking that if we keep the R1S for 7-8 years, our total cost of ownership will probably not be too bad, given the lower initial price + rebate. And we'll probably still end up replacing the QX60 in the next 3-4 years anyways, and who knows what we do at that point.

Tell me if my justification has holes in it or if anyone has other convincing tidbits that I can add.

Just tell her its her daily vehicle. Our R1S is my wife's daily and is our roadtrip mobile.

 

[Steve A.]

I have a Dec 2021 R1S reservation for $78,800 and I signed the BPA to also qualify for the $7500 rebate, bringing my net price to ~ $71k. It will cost me around $99k now for a similar configuration because of the post Mar 2021 price increase and because I would have to add the all-terrain upgrade to try and mirror my current configuration as much as possible. And no rebate. So about a $28k difference.

Now here's the conundrum. We don't really need a new car. I would love to replace our 2017 Infiniti QX60, but its paid off and running fine. Hate driving that thing, but I also have my paid-off 2020 Model 3 "sleeper" performance and my wife and I drive both 50:50. I had put a deposit down on the R1S thinking that we would replace the QX by the time we get delivery, but my wife was never completely on board and definitely isn't now either. She's not into cars, and yes, we probably can spend our hard-earned $s on other things or maybe just save more. But I really want the R1S! And now I have a guide assigned and need to confirm my configuration.

I'm thinking about approaching this from a financial perspective and explaining to her that in the long run getting the Rivian at the pre-March 2021 pricing, with the $7500 rebate, is an opportunity that we will never get again. I'm also thinking that if we keep the R1S for 7-8 years, our total cost of ownership will probably not be too bad, given the lower initial price + rebate. And we'll probably still end up replacing the QX60 in the next 3-4 years anyways, and who knows what we do at that point.

Tell me if my justification has holes in it or if anyone has other convincing tidbits that I can add.

AFAIC, the numbers are on your side.

#1 My R1S pre-order pricing cost me $88k after taxes, tags, destination, etc. but the SAME build costs $19k more now. That's a $107k vehicle for $88k!

#2 After running the numbers on electric vs gas costs only (not counting oil/filter changes, spark plugs, belts, hoses, transmission/differential fluid flushes, etc), my R1S costs me ~$0.08/mile to drive vs ~$0.20/mile to drive my Audi Q7 or ~$0.25/mile to drive my Ford Expedition.

 

[azbill]

Well, there is this alternative:



My wife bought me a shirt with that song title.

 

[sub]

Buying a new vehicle is never the financially prudent choice.

Also, you didn't say anything about why you would need such a large vehicle. Unless you have a ton of kids, you probably don't. If you don't have an actual need for such a large vehicle, you could save a lot money, and be even more environmentally conscious by buying a smaller EV. If you like your Model 3, and it fulfills your practical needs - get another one if you want to be reasonably financially prudent while getting out of the old ICE that you hate driving.

Or buy a Rivian because you want one.

As far as convincing the wife, my suggestion is to tell her that you are not going to drive that ICE anymore. If she thinks you should keep it, she can drive it 100% of the time.

 

[Deacon]

Don’t overthink it. My wife was on the fence until she realized there was a “huge spot under the dash” to put her purse. She was hooked at that point, and it’s the first thing she tells friends when we have them in for the first time. Also, and this was a slow roll, she loves how fast as F it is. She says her new Cayenne S is too slow now.

The "purse place" under the dash is a huge + for my wife.

 

[Steve A.]

There is zero financial justification for buying a Rivian.

Careful w/ making *broad brush* assertions like this. Obviously, this is *highly* relevant upon everyone's individual situation.

In my case, I'm self-employed, so I will be writing off 100% of my R1S $88k price tag this tax year via section 179 deduction in addition to the $0.65/business mile for the 30k+ business miles/year that I drive; i.e. an additional ~$20k deduction.

Even w/o writing off the business expense aspect of my R1S, I will still write off the $7,500 EV tax deduction and $750 home charger state deduction, and it costs me only $0.08/mile to charge at home vs the $0.20/mile and $0.25/mile in gas alone (not incl. oil, filters, spark plugs, transmission/differential flushes, etc.) to drive my Audi Q7 and Ford Expedition, respectively.

As always, YMMV.

 

[Donald Stanfield]

if cost is driving the decision trade the infinitiii for a horse and buggy.

I know plenty of people with horses and not one of them consider a horse a value based proposition. From what I know about horse care it's on par to buying a boat. Just a hole in the water you throw money into but instead of water it's your stable. I also am aware you were making a joke.

 

[teej]

If you believe a decked out R1S is worth $99k it seems kinda silly to not buy it for a final price of $71k.

If you love it you can have a great car you can drive and have little maintenance for 5 years (probably tires and that’s it). If you don’t like it you can sell it after a year and probably recuperate most/all of your investment.

Also I don’t know what the mileage on your paid off car is but what are the maintenance and repair costs going to be on that over the next 5-6 years. Also fuel cost comparison? Insurance? Etc.

The QX has ~75k miles. I'm in southern CA and pay for premium gas, so end up paying ~$150/month in gas, and definitely a consideration. Insurance is cheap....need to check on the Rivian. And ya I love the low spend (time and cost) on the Tesla and would really like not having to take an ICE for all the regular ICE-related maintenance and repair stuff.

I don't know your personal situation OP but it sounds like this purchase might use other funds that you should be using elsewhere. Your wife is probably making the right call here financially and using words like discount and value when it comes to a purchase like this one isn't really fair or realistic. This car is a waste of money and there is no real other way to slice it.

To be fair to Rivian tons of things are wastes of money, pretty much anything that's not going to make you money or save you time should be considered a waste of money. The only stuff Rivian does significantly better than a much cheaper vehicle is go fast while being able to haul stuff. You don't need one vehicle to do both of those things and these vehicles are way over the top on purpose. It's a Halo car.

Now if you can waste that money and not compromise your financial security or more important things then go for it. It's a pretty great truck and I really enjoy mine. There isn't a vehicle on this planet that I'd compromise my financial future to get though.

Wise points. We do have other places where our money can go. But at some point we will replace the QX. I think what we have to figure out is whether in the long run getting the R1S now with the "discount" will be cheaper (or comparitive at least) than waiting 2-4 more years and getting something else that we keep 7-8 years, even if its a cheaper car overall. Thats how long on average we have been keeping our cars. What makes it more challenging is the timing...we do have other places where we can put our money right now, and it would have been an easier decision maybe a year from now.

Do you really want to be the richest person in the cemetery??

Trade one car in towards the Rivian and enjoy your life.

Overtime cost of ownership spread out along with low fuel costs will help you justify the vehicle from a financial standpoint.

Most folks who like to count beans forget to put a valuation on what I call smiles per miles.

The smiles per miles count for Rivian is off the chart and take a look at what vehicle I come from.

I know your feeling and I drove a sedan with a power to weight ratio of 11.64. The R1S has a power to weight ratio of 8.45

I am overall very pleased with the performance of my car and did not want to make any compromise when I switched to a SUV.

The R1S is a no compromise type of SUV.

I plan to take road trips to create memories with my family around USA to check out our national parks states I have lived in and drive up to Canada as well.

Aim to be the happiest person in the cemetary.

Remember what Warren said. Price is what you pay, value is what you get.

Here is some eye candy to make your decision just that much harder.

Thanks for making my decision harder

Your logic is good but why isn't the wife onboard? If you have two paid off cars it sounds like she might be against financing it or buying another car when (in her mind) the cars you have are perfectly fine.

Financially she is going to win there is no way around that. Now practically the R1S is a much nicer vehicle, has a great warranty, has great resale value, and checks almost every box.

If you can afford to you should but if it will put you in an uncomfortable situation financially it may not be a good idea.

These decisions are tough. Maybe sit down together and go over the pros and cons?

Right, its basically the sizable new car payment when we don't really need one. But I'm also trying to look at it from an overall cost of ownership perspective, because at some point in the next 2-4 years we will definitely replace the QX.

It's win-win to unload the Infiniti and pick up the Rivian. If you can fold it into the transaction you may pay less sales tax (check your state). Then you've got a vehicle at a $30,000 discount.

Drive it for a few months and see what you think. See what she thinks.

If you love it, you find a way to keep it. (Turo would be a way to make a little money on the side.)

If you hate it, or hate the financial suck feeling, you sell it for asking or a little more. Then you're in the market for a new vehicle, which you wanted anyhow because you hate the Infiniti.

It's conceivable that you could drive the Rivian for 3-4 years (which was the length of time you thought you'd keep the Infiniti?) and still break even on the sale, depending on what happens in the EV market. Certainly some Tesla folks have sold their multi-year old vehicles for scratch.

If you bought the Infiniti and hate it... here's a thought: maybe your wife doesn't trust your chooser any more. Like, maybe she's concerned you'll buy this one and hate it too in a few months or years. Is that possible?

Unfortunately, I'm in CA and so no sales tax benefit. And no, don't think my wife is concerned about me hating the R1S. The QX we picked after doing considerable research and test driving. We just needed a biggish 3-row for 3 tall kids + 2 dogs, and at that time it seemed like a good value. And maybe "hate" is too strong of a word...I dislike it and its definitely not fun to drive, but its served us well and is pretty feature-packed for the price.

You're in a tough spot (IMO). This isn't about money, it's about emotion ... you want the R1S and as you should, it's really cool and fun to drive. My wife is into cars so my life was easy ... she bought what she wanted and accepted when I wanted to buy my R1T when there was nothing wrong with my old truck. So ... is there anything else she really wants that you're not totally on board with? Get on board and horse trade - good luck

Lucky guy! Lets see...she really wants a 2nd floor ?

Very wise decision. Have you looked at the electric mini cooper? They are an absolute blast to drive (no stick however) and is a perfect fun car with practically zero maintenance (except tires) and will set you back less than half the Rivian.

I think for me if I'm getting a fun car, it will have to be a stick. I love driving the Tesla because of the acceleration and just overall driving dynamics, but I really really miss rowing my own gears. Maybe I just wait for this - Lexus manual EV

@teej anyone is crazy to forego R1S pre price hike reservation. If your wife doesn't like the whole deal after you buy it just sell it for your all in price. If you feel that's a real possibility keep the Infinity and only sell that after the R1S has full buy in from wifey. Hell I'll make you even on the R1S if you don't like it.

I will keep that in mind!

Ask her this, "how did we justify buying a luxury SUV when we bought the Infinity (as opposed to buying an econo-box nissan)?"

Well we needed a biggish 3 row because of kids and dogs, and both of us liked the value/$ the QX provided.

Just tell her its her daily vehicle. Our R1S is my wife's daily and is our roadtrip mobile.

The R1S would technically be her daily. So was the QX until I started working 90% from home. She's a physician and works 3 days/week ~20 miles away. It just made sense for her to drive the model 3 those days and also use the carpool lane. But those days I'm stuck with the QX, and sometimes I have to drive kids around, some days I go to the office ~8 miles away.

AFAIC, the numbers are on your side.

#1 My R1S pre-order pricing cost me $88k after taxes, tags, destination, etc. but the SAME build costs $19k more now. That's a $107k vehicle for $88k!

#2 After running the numbers on electric vs gas costs only (not counting oil/filter changes, spark plugs, belts, hoses, transmission/differential fluid flushes, etc), my R1S costs me ~$0.08/mile to drive vs ~$0.20/mile to drive my Audi Q7 or ~$0.25/mile to drive my Ford Expedition.

These numbers help, thanks!

Buying a new vehicle is never the financially prudent choice.

Also, you didn't say anything about why you would need such a large vehicle. Unless you have a ton of kids, you probably don't. If you don't have an actual need for such a large vehicle, you could save a lot money, and be even more environmentally conscious by buying a smaller EV. If you like your Model 3, and it fulfills your practical needs - get another one if you want to be reasonably financially prudent while getting out of the old ICE that you hate driving.

Or buy a Rivian because you want one.

As far as convincing the wife, my suggestion is to tell her that you are not going to drive that ICE anymore. If she thinks you should keep it, she can drive it 100% of the time.

Yea, do need a large vehicle because of 3 kids and 2 dogs. As far as her driving the ICE, she drives to work more than I do, the commute is 40 miles total, so makes sense for her to take the Model 3 those days.

 

[Bruins06]

Why do you hate the QX60? Does your wife also hate it?

 

[teej]

if cost is driving the decision trade the infinitiii for a horse and buggy.

Hmm didn't consider that option and will have to do a lot of research - e.g. whether they're allowed on freeways, what does the feeding network look like, 0-60(?) time, can I get 3 rows, how many USB-Cs, feeding at home in the garage, etc.

 

[Acoustic71]

Replacing the wife unit can sometimes be way more expensive, but it can also be worth it.

Ask me how I know....

 

[teej]

Why do you hate the QX60? Does your wife also hate it?

I've changed my mind, feel bad for the QX. I "dislike" it. Its been a good car overall, we've done multiple road trips in it, and I still like to think it was good bang for the buck. Its essentially the driving bit for me not liking it - so slow compared to the Model 3, the CVT, the dynamics. Thats the main reason, other than the fact that its just an old platform at this point with old interior, electronics, etc.

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