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Indications of an R1 refresh

ThatOneGuy

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The unveiling of the R2/R3/R3X yesterday showcased an updated design language and some dramatic interior hardware/software changes that fundamentally change how the user interacts with and experiences their vehicle. Arguably, the best example of this is the steering wheel's unique buttons (scroll wheels?) that dynamically adjust in function and provide haptic feedback based on actions that the user wants to take (as seen in MKBHD's video). The similar design language on both vehicles seems to have been well received by Rivian enthusiasts and the general public, which inevitably prompts the question of if and when the new design language will make its way up to the R1 line. Multiple attendees and interviewers asked RJ and other Rivian employees yesterday, and while the answers on hardware were murky and ambiguous, answers on software were not: the R1 line will receive the same software as the R2/3, with the not-so-subtle implication that these changes would come soon™.

Given that the interior hardware changes are somewhat core to the software experience, and that the updated software has been confirmed as coming to the R1 line soon, I speculate that we may see some corresponding changes to the R1 line this year and that they will be introduced following the April factory shutdown. In no particular order, here are what could be considered a few subtle indicators:
  1. Yesterday, when asked whether the R1 line will be updated to align with the R2/3, RJ's body language - cheeky smiles - serves as a telltale sign, as it has multiple times in the past. Almost every time he was asked, he looked as if he could barely keep the secret about something that's just around the corner. Further, in the context of those interactions, he and other Rivian employees reiterated repeatedly that the R1T/S remained their flagship vehicles and that they'd be treated accordingly.
  2. Repeated mentions/leaks over the last few months of an upcoming "high end" interior trim for the R1 line.
    1. Speculation: this might be accompanied by a cheaper interior option (a la Explore trim) that borrows from some of the cost saving measures - materials, etc. - that are to be used in R2/R3.
  3. Previous announcement from Rivian that the quad-motor max pack made with their in-house motors would be returning to the configurator in 2024 - at times mentioned as targeted for the first half of the year. It was also touted as being an epic powerhouse performance truck - interestingly, they've just unveiled an epic performance rally car variant X of the R3, so....
  4. Previous acknowledgement by RJ in 2023 that the center armrest wireless charger's performance was poor, confirmation that it is being reengineered, and that he hoped to introduce the reengineered charger in the near future (2024). The implied message was that it had been in the reengineering process for a while, which suggests that it should be ready for introduction very soon.. like now.
  5. Previous comments on this forum and the Rivian subreddit from supposed employees and friends-of-employees that Rivian was targeting introduction of a heat pump in mid-2024 along some other changes . Although these generally aren't the most trustworthy sources by themselves, some consideration must be given when many other indicators hint at the same thing.
  6. Rivian has been pushing hard recently to clear existing inventory with incentives (free upgraded wheels, paint colors, "buy now or you'll have to wait *gasp*," etc.) ahead of the shutdown, likely because they know that any changes introduced during the April shutdown will result lower demand for their existing outdated inventory.
  7. The very recent introduction of heavily discounted demo vehicles to the shop. Considering other indicators, I'd guess they want to clear out their demo fleet because they'll be getting new updated demo vehicles soon.
So, why would they do this now?

Generally speaking, flagship vehicles are the first to showcase updated design language, new technologies, and a refined user experience, all of which eventually trickle down to cheaper models. Rivian has done the opposite. By unveiling two new lower cost vehicles that are arguably more refined than their ~4-6 year old flagship line (which was already feeling pressure from new competition), they've dated their only product offerings for the next 2 years and effectively shown potential customers that they should wait. They no doubt understood this two weeks ago when they outlined a slightly higher YoY production goal for 2024 and forecasted steady demand throughout, something that will be hard to achieve in light of these developments. Simply put, Rivian has to make their current products enticing enough to convince potential customers - those that could be persuaded to buy an R1S over an R2 - to buy now instead of waiting, otherwise R1 sales will continue to slow and they will not meet their production targets. They knew this when they briefed investors. Enter the mid-cycle refresh, a strategy employed by automakers for decades to keep demand up while their next product is in the works; no substantial changes, but enough to keep their vehicle fresh and relevant.

In addition to all of this, their plan to produce R2 at Normal enables them to critically centralize their supply chain(s) and concentrate their manufacturing talent in one place to efficiently manufacture R1 and eventually R2. Product alignment across both will allow them to share parts, gain efficiencies, negotiate more aggressively with suppliers for parts that touch all vehicles, etc., all of which will have an immediate and long term effect of reducing R1 production costs - their oft stated intent for the upcoming shutdown.

A strategy that checks all of the boxes - reduces CapEx, aligns product lines, keeps their existing sales up, prepares their next mass market vehicle(s) - is a winning one, and I think it entails refreshing the R1 line as soon as possible.
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Mahawkma

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I don’t have much to add other than this being a well thought out post. If they do bring those new haptic scroll wheels to the R1 line, it would be kewl if they offered an upgrade to us lowly non-refresh R1 owners to add the new steering wheel(assuming that it does increase the user experience in a measurable way). Ok, yeah, that probably won’t happen. . . . :)

Edit: edit poor grammar to avoid grammar police
 

Kelvn

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I don’t have much to add other than this being a well thought out post. If they do bring those new haptic scroll wheels to the R1 line, it would be kewl if they offered an upgrade to us lowly non-refresh R1 owners to add the new steering wheel(assuming that it does increase the user experience in a measurable way). Ok, yeah, that probably won’t happen. . . . :)

Edit: edit poor grammar to avoid grammar police
If Rivian reads these forums....I'd pay for that upgrade, One of my complaints is the rubberized soft touch steering wheel buttons, they look rugged, but if my experience with that finish in the past is any indication, the soft touch finish will start to peel off.

Rivian R1T R1S Indications of an R1 refresh 1709937023889
 

Ecupip

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If Rivian reads these forums....I'd pay for that upgrade, One of my complaints is the rubberized soft touch steering wheel buttons, they look rugged, but if my experience with that finish in the past is any indication, the soft touch finish will start to peel off.

1709937023889.png
I worry about this too. There is a ton of rubber coated plastics in the R1 that will eventually meet the same fate as above. Some will sooner if they expose these parts to harsher chemicals and use.

Back to the original post, it was good to hear that the R1’s would receive the same software shown on the mini review videos as a software update.
 

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Riv_Ian

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Service center capacity is a current constraint, which has to be solved anyhow. Once done, ability to retrofit things like the new steering wheel could be an attractive revenue stream. Some additional software management complexity might make it more trouble than it’s worth though I suppose.
 

RedCanyon

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I question your suggestions on software. RJ was pretty proud about the capabilities the new R2 cameras, ladar and processors were going to be capable of supporting... specifically hands free driving. This says to me, the R2 (and likely a refreshed R1) will be able to support software capabilities... specifically Driver+ that the current R1 owners won't get.
 

JustPokingAround

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I'm bummed to have to extend my current lease(s) to ride out the shut down, but would obviously welcome any upgrades when my vehicle finally comes.
 
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ThatOneGuy

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Your points are well thought through, well stated and well taken. The right question is: Why wouldn’t they update R1 at the earliest moment possible?
Thank you! And I completely agree. If R1 sales were already falling, slowing, or even just flattening, it's not a good indicator for the next 1-2 years. They have an excellent opportunity to supercharge their lineup and incorporate some meaningful cost saving measures, already planned for R2/3, to work towards profitability. For many reasons, a refresh now makes complete sense and I really hope that's their plan for this shutdown.
 

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ThatOneGuy

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I question your suggestions on software. RJ was pretty proud about the capabilities the new R2 cameras, ladar and processors were going to be capable of supporting... specifically hands free driving. This says to me, the R2 (and likely a refreshed R1) will be able to support software capabilities... specifically Driver+ that the current R1 owners won't get.
Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but I interpret what you're saying as bolstering my argument that an R1 refresh is likely and intended to bring R1 capabilities in line with those touted for the R2/R3. Of course, doing so will mean that current R1 vehicles will not be capable of achieving the level of autonomous driving that is planned for future Rivian vehicles. Am I correct?
 

bdwalters

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I'm guessing that the R1 cost reduction effort in Q2 is going to involve a non-trivial refresh as well. I'm thinking it will include the R2 steering wheel, new software, and the new cameras, radars, and hardware to support self driving. I'm thinking they'll get rid of the camp speaker and replace it with a drawer. Anybody else have any theories?
 

Rivian_Hugh_III

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Thank you! And I completely agree. If R1 sales were already falling, slowing, or even just flattening, it's not a good indicator for the next 1-2 years. They have an excellent opportunity to supercharge their lineup and incorporate some meaningful cost saving measures, already planned for R2/3, to work towards profitability. For many reasons, a refresh now makes complete sense and I really hope that's their plan for this shutdown.
A good enough upgrade could convince early adopters to trade up, which would goose sales even more.
 

onesoil

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The unveiling of the R2/R3/R3X yesterday showcased an updated design language and some dramatic interior hardware/software changes that fundamentally change how the user interacts with and experiences their vehicle. Arguably, the best example of this is the steering wheel's unique buttons (scroll wheels?) that dynamically adjust in function and provide haptic feedback based on actions that the user wants to take (as seen in MKBHD's video). The similar design language on both vehicles seems to have been well received by Rivian enthusiasts and the general public, which inevitably prompts the question of if and when the new design language will make its way up to the R1 line. Multiple attendees and interviewers asked RJ and other Rivian employees yesterday, and while the answers on hardware were murky and ambiguous, answers on software were not: the R1 line will receive the same software as the R2/3, with the not-so-subtle implication that these changes would come soon™.

Given that the interior hardware changes are somewhat core to the software experience, and that the updated software has been confirmed as coming to the R1 line soon, I speculate that we may see some corresponding changes to the R1 line this year and that they will be introduced following the April factory shutdown. In no particular order, here are what could be considered a few subtle indicators:
  1. Yesterday, when asked whether the R1 line will be updated to align with the R2/3, RJ's body language - cheeky smiles - serves as a telltale sign, as it has multiple times in the past. Almost every time he was asked, he looked as if he could barely keep the secret about something that's just around the corner. Further, in the context of those interactions, he and other Rivian employees reiterated repeatedly that the R1T/S remained their flagship vehicles and that they'd be treated accordingly.
  2. Repeated mentions/leaks over the last few months of an upcoming "high end" interior trim for the R1 line.
    1. Speculation: this might be accompanied by a cheaper interior option (a la Explore trim) that borrows from some of the cost saving measures - materials, etc. - that are to be used in R2/R3.
  3. Previous announcement from Rivian that the quad-motor max pack made with their in-house motors would be returning to the configurator in 2024 - at times mentioned as targeted for the first half of the year. It was also touted as being an epic powerhouse performance truck - interestingly, they've just unveiled an epic performance rally car variant X of the R3, so....
  4. Previous acknowledgement by RJ in 2023 that the center armrest wireless charger's performance was poor, confirmation that it is being reengineered, and that he hoped to introduce the reengineered charger in the near future (2024). The implied message was that it had been in the reengineering process for a while, which suggests that it should be ready for introduction very soon.. like now.
  5. Previous comments on this forum and the Rivian subreddit from supposed employees and friends-of-employees that Rivian was targeting introduction of a heat pump in mid-2024 along some other changes . Although these generally aren't the most trustworthy sources by themselves, some consideration must be given when many other indicators hint at the same thing.
  6. Rivian has been pushing hard recently to clear existing inventory with incentives (free upgraded wheels, paint colors, "buy now or you'll have to wait *gasp*," etc.) ahead of the shutdown, likely because they know that any changes introduced during the April shutdown will result lower demand for their existing outdated inventory.
  7. The very recent introduction of heavily discounted demo vehicles to the shop. Considering other indicators, I'd guess they want to clear out their demo fleet because they'll be getting new updated demo vehicles soon.
So, why would they do this now?

Generally speaking, flagship vehicles are the first to showcase updated design language, new technologies, and a refined user experience, all of which eventually trickle down to cheaper models. Rivian has done the opposite. By unveiling two new lower cost vehicles that are arguably more refined than their ~4-6 year old flagship line (which was already feeling pressure from new competition), they've dated their only product offerings for the next 2 years and effectively shown potential customers that they should wait. They no doubt understood this two weeks ago when they outlined a slightly higher YoY production goal for 2024 and forecasted steady demand throughout, something that will be hard to achieve in light of these developments. Simply put, Rivian has to make their current products enticing enough to convince potential customers - those that could be persuaded to buy an R1S over an R2 - to buy now instead of waiting, otherwise R1 sales will continue to slow and they will not meet their production targets. They knew this when they briefed investors. Enter the mid-cycle refresh, a strategy employed by automakers for decades to keep demand up while their next product is in the works; no substantial changes, but enough to keep their vehicle fresh and relevant.

In addition to all of this, their plan to produce R2 at Normal enables them to critically centralize their supply chain(s) and concentrate their manufacturing talent in one place to efficiently manufacture R1 and eventually R2. Product alignment across both will allow them to share parts, gain efficiencies, negotiate more aggressively with suppliers for parts that touch all vehicles, etc., all of which will have an immediate and long term effect of reducing R1 production costs - their oft stated intent for the upcoming shutdown.

A strategy that checks all of the boxes - reduces CapEx, aligns product lines, keeps their existing sales up, prepares their next mass market vehicle(s) - is a winning one, and I think it entails refreshing the R1 line as soon as possible.
This seems to me to be a spot-on analysis and hypothesis—I, too, felt even more strongly after watching the R2/3 release that the April shutdown for retooling would be, in part, to bring about an R1 refresh both to drive more R1 demand before R2 starts shipping and to reduce complexity/cost of production with lessons learned in the first couple years of R1 manufacturing. The new haptic controls and some of the interior materials, cameras (that were outdated from day one on R1) and radar, new colors (interior and exterior), and an enduro quad motor/max pack quad all seem like potential items we might see following the shutdown—all hopefully with reduced manufacturing complexity/expense. One or two gloveboxes would be cool, but I doubt that's possible given the packaging changes that would be necessary to pull that off.

I have been in the market for an R1S while going through a painfully slow negotiation with Hyundai on an Ioniq 5 buyback (a whole long—tedious—story in and of itself). I was close to purchasing one from the shop about a month ago, then went on a search for a unicorn used green (either forest or launch) + Forest Edge + Dark 20" R1S (didn't find anything with reinforced underbody) since new R1S quad motor price is just a bit higher than I can justify right now, especially with interest rates being what they are and Rivian offering little to no help there.

I had a $1000 refundable deposit on a shop build that came and went as I waited, and then I decided to wait a little longer until the R2 release before pulling any trigger. The night before the event, I saw the demo shop thread and put a $0 reserve hold on an R1T (all 4 of the R1S were already sold out when I discovered the page). The spec is basically exactly what I want (minus underbody shield)—Forest Green + Forest Edge + 20" Darks + powered tonneau: https://demovehicles.rivian.com/pro...9896-miles-66307?_pos=16&_fid=d7a27f4db&_ss=c

I'm torn because what's motivating this is that I will need a vehicle in about 4 weeks when my Ioniq 5 is picked up. I would prefer an R1S to an R1T, but either will work for my needs (I just don't need a bed often, and have access to a diesel work truck with an 8' bed when I do need one). The shorter wheelbase and added secure/waterproof/climate-controlled (aka, interior) space of an SUV form factor is more useful and appealing to me. The R1T demo truck I reserved at least takes a big chunk of the initial depreciation off the top, and because it's a business purchase we will get the $7500 tax break off the ~$72k delivered price (plus another $2500 state incentive) since it's an untitled/unregistered vehicle (I confirmed this with Rivian and our accountant). I am almost thinking it's worth getting this truck as a stop-gap to then trade for R2 or a refreshed R1S, or maybe a used one in the future since pricing for a new R1S is so hard to justify.

Does anyone have an opinion on how hard an impact such a refresh could have on trade-in/used pre-refresh R1? Am I crazy to be buying an R1T for a net of $60k with 10k miles right at the brink of a refresh? We have a 10-year-old beater leaf I could be driving to and from work that I could live with for the next two months, but it's definitely not ideal.
 

vandy1981

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We already know that the R1 refresh is imminent given all of the sightings of the R1 test vehicles with reconfigured ADAS cameras.

The R1 continues to be competitive in its segment. Any refresh at this point is going to be focused on cutting production costs. I would not get your hopes up about capability or consumer-facing changes beyond minor cosmetic upgrades and new charging pads.

The heat pump is only going to happen if it lowers cost given the marginal benefits of a heat pump in such a thirsty vehicle (e.g. it allows for a smaller battery pack for equivalent range or simplifies cabin/battery conditioning system). I'm not even 100% convinced that the relocated ADAS cameras will add additional capabilities.
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