TALKIN' TANK TURNS - - When, Where & How??

[Lil'O Annie]

It looks like most, if not all, of us are anxious to try out the Tank Turn feature of the Rivians. Yet, RJ said this will NOT BE AVAILABLE AT THE TIME OF LAUNCH and will happen as a software update in the future. He said they will have to put in restrictions as to where you can use this feature. That got me wondering how Rivian will determine where the feature can be done. No Tank Turns on Highways, in National Parks, State parks, National Forests?? Will it only be allowed in ORV areas? What about private land? We're farmers and were hoping to pull it out in one of our muddy irrigated fields to test it out, but if they restrict it to just certain areas, will we not be able to TT on our own property?

I certainly understand the need for restrictions. I can see some idiots going out and tearing up natural areas that should not be abused, so I greatly appreciate Rivian's desire to protect those areas. But, how are they going to do that??

Will be interesting to see how they go about implementing this feature in the future. I'm also halfway wondering if they may end up not allowing it at all due to the potential problems.

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[kanundrum]

Id imagine they would record every single tank turn you do for warranty purposes, if you go tearing it up on some pavement they would not be liable for warranty.

Huge gray area really and Id leave it to their judgement on what to implement vs not. Its a party trick at most with no real world use haha.

 

[Notaevfan]

In my back yard as soon as I can!

RJ acts like they need to make sure people don't do it in areas like parks, but it's definitely a matter of them advertising a feature and having to honor the warranty. If you really wanted to keep people from doing things they shouldn't, why give it so much power and make it go so fast. We have all seen the video, there is no situation that one would use this feature, where a 20 point turn wouldn't be a better option. Wherever you do a TT you have the potential to destroy the road, truck, or environment. For that reason I don't believe we will ever get to do TTs. Aftermarket software???

 

[crashmtb]

 

[CommodoreAmiga]

Id imagine they would record every single tank turn you do for warranty purposes, if you go tearing it up on some pavement they would not be liable for warranty.

They would need to demonstrate that the inappropriate tank turn caused the failure. If the vehicle sensors establish the failure at the same time of the tank turn, then they could do that... But if you do some tank turns and then a month later you experience a failure then I think they'd have a hard case for denying warranty.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson–Moss_Warranty_Act

 

[crashmtb]

They would need to demonstrate that the inappropriate tank turn caused the failure. If the vehicle sensors establish the failure at the same time of the tank turn, then they could do that... But if you do some tank turns and then a month later you experience a failure then I think they'd have a hard case for denying warranty.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson–Moss_Warranty_Act

If you’ve been doing tank turns and you snap a halfshaft or blow up a CV joint, Rivian could absolutely deny warranty coverage.

https://www.autoweek.com/news/a2088...buse-or-autocrossing-most-automakers-are-not/

 

[CommodoreAmiga]

If you’ve been doing tank turns and you snap a halfshaft or blow up a CV joint, Rivian could absolutely deny warranty coverage.

Again, they have to demonstrate you used the feature incorrectly and that caused the failure.

 

[crashmtb]

Again, they have to demonstrate you used the feature incorrectly and that caused the failure.

say you took your rivian to a park, you did a bunch of tank turns in the parking lot. Two weeks later, CV joint sounds like gravel.
No warranty, because telemetry says you were doing tank turns.

My car has a drift mode and track mode. Both pop up a “track use only” warning. If I break a drivetrain part in either mode? No warranty.

 

[CommodoreAmiga]

say you took your rivian to a park, you did a bunch of tank turns in the parking lot. Two weeks later, CV joint sounds like gravel.
No warranty, because telemetry says you were doing tank turns.

That would not be a valid warranty denial, imo. If the manufacturer wanted to deny the claim, I'd challenge it.

My car has a drift mode and track mode. Both pop up a “track use only” warning. If I break a drivetrain part in either mode? No warranty.

Not necesarily. It's more complicated than that.

Straight from a FCA spokesperson:

"track use does not automatically void the warranty. However, non-OEM vehicle modifications, abuse, and/or sanctioned competitive racing can result in unintended damage, which is not covered by warranty.
https://www.hagerty.com/media/news/will-your-new-car-warranty-cover-track-driving/

 

[P.S.Mangelsdorf]

Straight from a FCA spokesperson:

"track use does not automatically void the warranty. However, non-OEM vehicle modifications, abuse, and/or sanctioned competitive racing can result in unintended damage, which is not covered by warranty.
https://www.hagerty.com/media/news/will-your-new-car-warranty-cover-track-driving/

This varies manufacturer to manufacturer. If I remember correctly, FCA/Dodge/Stellantis were outliers when they said they'd cover damage when drag racing the Challenger. Again, based on my memory at the time of the Hellcat/Demon launch, one of the other Detroit automakers explicitly said they wouldn't cover track use even on their track oriented cars.

 

[CommodoreAmiga]

This varies manufacturer to manufacturer. If I remember correctly, FCA/Dodge/Stellantis were outliers when they said they'd cover damage when drag racing the Challenger. Again, based on my memory at the time of the Hellcat/Demon launch, one of the other Detroit automakers explicitly said they wouldn't cover track use even on their track oriented cars.

The magic of Federal Law is that manufacturers don't get to choose whether or not to comply.

https://www.ftc.gov/enforcement/sta...nty-federal-trade-commission-improvements-act

 

[P.S.Mangelsdorf]

Regarding tank turn, acceptable areas are really going to vary across the county. I'd love to use it on the beach in NC, but that gets into a gray area. The local ordinance prohibits "driving in a repeated circular motion (aka doughnuts)". Does tank turn count? its not a doughnut persay but it also sort of is?

I would hope that there are no restrictions on private property, but that gets into the bigger "do you own the stuff you own?" question

 

[CommodoreAmiga]

Regarding tank turn, acceptable areas are really going to vary across the county. I'd love to use it on the beach in NC, but that gets into a gray area. The local ordinance prohibits "driving in a repeated circular motion (aka doughnuts)". Does tank turn count? its not a doughnut persay but it also sort of is?

The key verbiage there, in my opinion, is "repeated circular motion".

A single Tank turn to go back the way you came (180 degrees)? Probably fine.

Multiple (repeated) tank turns to just have fun (360+ degrees)? Probably gets you a ticket.

 

[P.S.Mangelsdorf]

The magic of Federal Law is that manufacturers don't get to choose whether or not to comply.

https://www.ftc.gov/enforcement/sta...nty-federal-trade-commission-improvements-act

Based on my understanding, if they write the restriction into the warranty (as that Big3 manufacturer did) then they are in compliance with federal law. Not a lawyer, just my understanding.

 

[P.S.Mangelsdorf]

The key verbiage there, in my opinion, is "repeated circular motion".

A single Tank turn to go back the way you came (180 degrees)? Probably fine.

Multiple (repeated) tank turns to just have fun (360+ degrees)? Probably gets you a ticket.

The question becomes if Rivian geofences the feature, how do they handle that? Locking it out entirely prevents the 180, attempting to lock to 180 presents other problems (stopping suddenly on soft sand is a guaranteed method to get stuck) There's not a great answer other than leaving it unlocked and letting the user chose/face the consequences.

Its also further complicated by the fact the beach is technically a state road.

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