UWB (Digital Car Key) Support

[KurtP]

Starting with Samsung S21, iPhone 11 and soon the Pixel 6 smartphones, we are starting to see greater adoption of Ultra Wide Band. A number of car manufactures have also stated their intent to use this technology for secure car access and other features (Digital car keys), this includes Audi, BMW, Hyundai , Honda, Ford , etc

https://www.xda-developers.com/android-12-car-unlock-key/
https://9to5google.com/2021/01/14/samsung-galaxy-s21-series-car-key-uwb/
https://9to5google.com/2020/10/12/samsung-uwb-tech-xiaomi-smart-home-demo/ (more than just unlocking your car door)

Is there any chance support for UWB devices will make it into the R1T/R1S cars ? It would help ensure better tech integration over time since all future iPhones and Android devices (including wearables) will support this going forward..

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[SANZC02]

Starting with Samsung S21, iPhone 12 and soon the Pixel 6 smartphones, we are starting to see greater adoption of Ultra Wide Band. A number of car manufactures have also stated their intent to use this technology for secure car access and other features (virtual car keys), this includes Audi, BMW, Hyundai , Honda, Ford , etc

https://www.xda-developers.com/android-12-car-unlock-key/
https://9to5google.com/2021/01/14/samsung-galaxy-s21-series-car-key-uwb/
https://9to5google.com/2020/10/12/samsung-uwb-tech-xiaomi-smart-home-demo/ (more than just unlocking your car door)

Is there any chance support for UWB devices will make it into the R1T/R1S cars ? It would help ensure better tech integration over time.

It will be interesting to see if it starts getting used by other auto manufacturers. Apple started putting the chip in their phones starting with iPhone 11.

What Is Ultra Wideband, and Why Is It In the iPhone 11? (howtogeek.com)

 

[bradleykent]

Starting with Samsung S21, iPhone 11 and soon the Pixel 6 smartphones, we are starting to see greater adoption of Ultra Wide Band. A number of car manufactures have also stated their intent to use this technology for secure car access and other features (Digital car keys), this includes Audi, BMW, Hyundai , Honda, Ford , etc

https://www.xda-developers.com/android-12-car-unlock-key/
https://9to5google.com/2021/01/14/samsung-galaxy-s21-series-car-key-uwb/
https://9to5google.com/2020/10/12/samsung-uwb-tech-xiaomi-smart-home-demo/ (more than just unlocking your car door)

Is there any chance support for UWB devices will make it into the R1T/R1S cars ? It would help ensure better tech integration over time since all future iPhones and Android devices (including wearables) will support this going forward..

So talked with a Rivian CS about this and they weren’t able to give me a clear answer. Leaning towards no UWB since it will come with a key fob in addition to the phone key through the Rivian app. Only 1 key fob per vehicle was confirmed though.

 

[SANZC02]

So talked with a Rivian CS about this and they weren’t able to give me a clear answer. Leaning towards no UWB since it will come with a key fob in addition to the phone key through the Rivian app. Only 1 key fob per vehicle was confirmed though.

I wonder if the single key fob is related to chip shortages. I saw this online the other day in an article I was reading....

 

[KurtP]

So talked with a Rivian CS about this and they weren’t able to give me a clear answer. Leaning towards no UWB since it will come with a key fob in addition to the phone key through the Rivian app. Only 1 key fob per vehicle was confirmed though.

I really hope they consider people that would be going off-grid for adventures when recommending a mobile app for digital key support (Cell/4G signal could be a problem).
The ability of UWB based phones to trigger automation routines (including smart home) via a digital key app (integrated with car or phone location services) could offer added benefits - hopefully Rivian envisions a similar capability.

 

[thrill]

I really hope they consider people that would be going off-grid for adventures when recommending a mobile app for digital key support (Cell/4G signal could be a problem).
The ability of UWB based phones to trigger automation routines (including smart home) via a digital key app (integrated with car or phone location services) could offer added benefits - hopefully Rivian envisions a similar capability.

It shouldn't be a problem. The vehicle acts as a wireless router and your phone will be able to connect directly to it. Additionally, it's likely to speak Bluetooth and NFC.

 

[KurtP]

I really hope they consider people that would be going off-grid for adventures when recommending a mobile app for digital key support (Cell/4G signal could be a problem).
The ability of UWB based phones to trigger automation routines (including smart home) via a digital key app (integrated with car or phone location services) could offer added benefits - hopefully Rivian envisions a similar capability.

Here is a good visual overview of the UWB capabilities and future scope - some major financial and tech companies are supporting this standard:

https://www.firaconsortium.org/discover/use-cases

 

[KurtP]

It shouldn't be a problem. The vehicle acts as a wireless router and your phone will be able to connect directly to it. Additionally, it's likely to speak Bluetooth and NFC.

I really hope they do better than Bluetooth and NFC (the former is a hodgepodge of varying support levels and encryption and NFC requires very close proximity....but less likely to be intercepted).

 

[Smithery]

So talked with a Rivian CS about this ... Only 1 key fob per vehicle was confirmed though.

I... Am flabbergasted... First I'd seen of this.

Really?

If you don't support UWB *and* you only have one key fob... how in the ever loving hell do you seamlessly change settings (seat positions, etc) between two drivers?

One getting the key fob and the other having to open the app and login and perform a round trip process involving the Internet will literally cause divorce.

(Yes, I'm clearly partially joking, but am also clearly not entirely joking)

 

[davrow_R1T]

One getting the key fob and the other having to open the app and login and perform a round trip process involving the Internet will literally cause divorce.

Why do you think the Internet will be involved?

 

[CommodoreAmiga]

If we’re expected to use the phone as our key, how does “valet” work? I assume we will HAVE to carry the fob around if you think you may valet the vehicle. And I’d hate to lose my ONLY fob.

I think this is penny-pinching taken too far. Rivian should be providing at least 2 fobs. My Volvo came with FOUR fobs.

If Rivian insists on only including one fob, they should at least give us the option of buying more.

 

[crashmtb]

If we’re expected to use the phone as our key, how does “valet” work? I assume we will HAVE to carry the fob around if you think you may valet the vehicle. And I’d hate to lose my ONLY fob.

I think this is penny-pinching taken too far. Rivian should be providing at least 2 fobs. My Volvo came with FOUR fobs.

If Rivian insists on only including one fob, they should at least give us the option of buying more.

You let other people park your car? ?
haven’t you seen the acclaimed documentary, Ferris Bueller’s Day Off?

I’m sure Rivian will very happily sell each of us as many keyfobs as we want to buy.

I wonder if the chip shortage has anything to do with only getting one fob. Porsche is currently delivering vehicles with one key, for example.
More likely they expect people to just use their phones. Which is not what I’ll be doing.

 

[Smithery]

Why do you think the Internet will be involved?

If a car has an app that supports "remote unlock" and "remote start", such as the Tesla app, then the Internet is necessarily involved in that operation.

For the Tesla app, as an example, they *COULD* support "local bluetooth unlock" when you're right next to the car... but they don't. If you're somewhere out of network range, you cannot use your phone to unlock the car.

Could the Rivian app do better? Technically speaking sure!

But even though... Any scenario where I'd have to get out my phone, unlock it, and open a specific app *just to get into my car* is a situation where providing only 1 key fob is entirely unacceptable.

UWB makes your phone an automatic key fob, which means it's sadly shortsighted if they really don't support it.

 

[DucRider]

If a car has an app that supports "remote unlock" and "remote start", such as the Tesla app, then the Internet is necessarily involved in that operation.

For the Tesla app, as an example, they *COULD* support "local bluetooth unlock" when you're right next to the car... but they don't. If you're somewhere out of network range, you cannot use your phone to unlock the car.

Could the Rivian app do better? Technically speaking sure!

But even though... Any scenario where I'd have to get out my phone, unlock it, and open a specific app *just to get into my car* is a situation where providing only 1 key fob is entirely unacceptable.

UWB makes your phone an automatic key fob, which means it's sadly shortsighted if they really don't support it.

I believe Rivian stated that they will have key cards in addition to the single fob

 

[Autolycus]

I believe Rivian stated that they will have key cards in addition to the single fob

And based on the new FCC filings that @kanundrum flagged in another thread, it looks like they will have NFC somewhere in the vehicle, which makes sense for key cards.

It will also have BLE, but that could be used for a variety of things.

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