Conflict at the Supercharger

[SANZC02]

Tolerance is a part of being considerate for sure. But there has to be balance otherwise you'll get walked all over.

I think there's a lot of assumptions being made throughout this thread. I read the irate Tesla owner in the OP as having issue with occupying 2 stalls. Some other people take it as the person complaining because it's a non-Tesla. I find it hard to believe that someone would get irate over an EV charging in 1 stall. I do see how someone could be pissed over 1 person blocking a usable stall. Others claiming that the Tesla owner is privileged or entitled is the opposite of what I think. If anyone is espousing privilege it would be the person who is preventing others from charging. It really comes down to how we perceive the events and a lot of people on this forum have hatred towards Elon and Tesla which makes them perceive the events in favor of the Rivian owner. Let's remember that we only have one side of the story.

We have to also remember that Tesla's navigation routes the vehicle to open spots. It was likely routing multiple people to that one spot that was being blocked. It's very frustrating, coming from someone who DCFC's a lot, to get to a station where it said you can charge, just to find out that you can't because, as an example, an EV parked in the spot without charging (happens all the time). The app only knows that the charger isn't in use.

If it was me, I would have moved. I wouldn't feel comfortable sitting there knowing that I'm blocking access to another unit with a line of cars waiting especially when I'm at 60% SOC or greater (10 min remaining) and the hotel has L2 and I'm not leaving for another day (overnight charging). I've said since the beginning that taken the totality of the circumstances I would have left.

I've been to the units in Woodland. What the OP didn't mention was that there are Chargepoint units on one side. They are L2 and never used. He could have likely asked the Tesla plugged in down there if they could swap so he wouldn't block another stall. If I was in the OPs shoes and absolutely needed the charge I would have made an attempt to swap with that vehicle. Most people are accomodating.

The Tesla process to identify station usage is not reliable, especially in busy areas like SoCal. I find it so unreliable as to be no better than a novelty.

Watching the counter on the screen while charging it can be 15 minutes or more to update when someone takes a spot or leaves a spot.

Here is a prime example at a 12 stall station in CA

This is the map reading

This is the station

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[DevSecOps]

I think it’s important for people to understand that what they see in the moment may not reflect the circumstances before they arrived. For example, if a Rivian which is not towing anything is charging at a pull-through spot and there are plenty of regular charging spots available it is easy to jump the the conclusion that the person is uneducated about charging or just plain rude. However, it may be that when that person arrived, all other spots were in use so they used the only one available: the pull-through. Then several vehicles departed making it look like they had a choice then because there is a choice now.

I completely agree with everything you said. I want to touch on this for a minute though. If I took a pull through because nothing else was available I would use the pull through and waited until one of the other ones was open and then moved. Or I would have put a piece of paper saying call me with my cell if you need this spot. On the other hand I would absolutely not give up the spot to a Rivian with a trailer if all others were full. That's first come, first serve and not at all what the OP did. But blocking it when others are open is just rude.

I'm also the guy who would move his EV at 11pm from a hotel charger if I knew others were waiting. I know most people would be like "ah hell no!" I often get to hotels and need to charge around midnight for the next morning, so I do what I would hope others would do for me.

 

[DevSecOps]

The Tesla process to identify station usage is not reliable, especially in busy areas like SoCal. I find it so unreliable as to be no better than a novelty.

Watching the counter on the screen while charging it can be 15 minutes or more to update when someone takes a spot or leaves a spot.

That's true for EA as well and just the nature of the beast. You could be 2 minutes away and it says 3 spots open, then 3 people get there before you. I actually like that EVGo has a reservation system and I really wish other companies would start adopting that. The down side is that I know one day someone is likely going to sue saying that privileged people can pay to reserve and that's not "fair" to those who can't afford it.

 

[jjswan33]

That's first come, first serve and not at all what the OP did. But blocking it when others are open is just rude.

How is that not what OP did? Only two spots available when he pulled in then used the one that he could.

Your take is OP should have waited until a spot opened up that he could charge without blocking another stall, if that even existed (from above it sounds like maybe but with blocking a L2 spot)? What if it doesn't exist at a given SC site, in OPs situation should you still defer to every Tesla that needs to charge first? Seems like a lot to expect.

 

[Autolycus]

Sure, but the facts are in the OP. He blocked a unit for 3 other vehicles. Whataboutism doesn't apply here.

By that logic, every single vehicle that is charging when there is someone waiting is "blocking" other vehicles. That's an absurd bit of logic. Using the charger to charge your vehicle to the level you need for your own trip (including some buffer that you want to be safe) is not "blocking" anything. It's also not being inconsiderate.

You're taking the idea of "being considerate" to an extreme that isn't reasonable. There's probably a Mr. Bean short about him waiting in line and always deferring to others who show up after him, thereby never getting to the front of the line himself. Seems like something he would have made a joke about.

 

[Jiji]

Too much text and no solutions so I pretty much stopped reading the thread. But in a nutshell there is too much hate at the SCs, and just a few thousand NACS adapters are in the wild, what happens when the hordes show up? Sharing plugs isn’t working so a better solution is required.

Well I have a solution that may be too late and overly simplistic and that is to stop the sharing of ALL the plugs at an SC location. If Tesla only took a few units at each SC location and made them exclusively for non-Teslas there would be no blocking and everyone could then get along with zero interaction. Rivian could do the same at the RANs, owners get preferential treatment at the Rivian plugs and non-Rivians are also accommodated.

Tesla likely doubled the number of DCFC plugs in the Syracuse, NY metro area with just one NACS adapter enabled SC location. Seems nice but if they set aside 2 of the 12 plugs at the SC for non-Teslas I doubt Tesla owners would notice and the non-Teslas like me would still be appreciative.

Just thinking out of the box, NEVI and other realities be damned.

 

[DevSecOps]

How is that not what OP did? Only two spots available when he pulled in then used the one that he could.

Have I ever said he shouldn't charge? No, I said that if it was me and I noticed that I blocked another unit for 3 waiting Tesla's I would have attempted to do something to remedy the situation so that I'm not blocking people from charging.

By that logic, every single vehicle that is charging when there is someone waiting is "blocking" other vehicles.

Quite obvious that you have an agenda. Blocking an additional spot that would otherwise be available to the people waiting is what happened here. No shit that charging in a stall is occupying that stall, c'mon bro that's not at all the issue at hand.

 

[COdogman]

Tolerance is a part of being considerate for sure. But there has to be balance otherwise you'll get walked all over.

I think there's a lot of assumptions being made throughout this thread. I read the irate Tesla owner in the OP as having issue with occupying 2 stalls. Some other people take it as the person complaining because it's a non-Tesla. I find it hard to believe that someone would get irate over an EV charging in 1 stall. I do see how someone could be pissed over 1 person blocking a usable stall. Others claiming that the Tesla owner is privileged or entitled is the opposite of what I think. If anyone is espousing privilege it would be the person who is preventing others from charging. It really comes down to how we perceive the events and a lot of people on this forum have hatred towards Elon and Tesla which makes them perceive the events in favor of the Rivian owner. Let's remember that we only have one side of the story.

We have to also remember that Tesla's navigation routes the vehicle to open spots. It was likely routing multiple people to that one spot that was being blocked. It's very frustrating, coming from someone who DCFC's a lot, to get to a station where it said you can charge, just to find out that you can't because, as an example, an EV parked in the spot without charging (happens all the time). The app only knows that the charger isn't in use.

If it was me, I would have moved. I wouldn't feel comfortable sitting there knowing that I'm blocking access to another unit with a line of cars waiting especially when I'm at 60% SOC or greater (10 min remaining) and the hotel has L2 and I'm not leaving for another day (overnight charging). I've said since the beginning that taken the totality of the circumstances I would have left.

I've been to the units in Woodland. What the OP didn't mention was that there are Chargepoint units on one side. They are L2 and never used. He could have likely asked the Tesla plugged in down there if they could swap so he wouldn't block another stall. If I was in the OPs shoes and absolutely needed the charge I would have made an attempt to swap with that vehicle. Most people are accomodating.

Are you saying Tesla’s navigation directs you to an actual charger number, not just a station with x number chargers open? If so I can see how that added to the frustration If people were being directed to the blocked stall. But let’s look at the bigger picture regarding that point: Tesla opened their network to other manufacturers knowing that, and also recommended Rivian/ Ford owners block the stall to their right. So whatever one thinks of Tesla/ Musk this is a situation created by their decision to handle things this way.

Maybe Tesla should have only opened charging stations with extra space on the far right for now? And the guidance for Ford/ Rivian drivers should have been to wait in line for that spot as a courtesy?

It’s very considerate of you to move in the same situation, or use a different charger but I also don’t blame OP for not moving until he got to 70%. He said he was going to see family before he went back to the hotel. When I have been in that position and know I’m going to check in late I expect that most hotels will have little to no parking left and if they have a charger I expect it will be occupied or even blocked by an ICE vehicle at that point. So I would definitely not count on that being an option for additional overnight charging.

OP said Mr Muscles claimed he didn’t have a right to be there, that it was for Teslas only. Obviously we only get one side of it but I don’t see why he would lie about that.

 

[Autolycus]

Have I ever said he shouldn't charge? No, I said that if it was me and I noticed that I blocked another unit for 3 waiting Tesla's I would have attempted to do something to remedy the situation so that I'm not blocking people from charging.



Quite obvious that you have an agenda. Blocking an additional spot that would otherwise be available to the people waiting is what happened here. No shit that charging in a stall is occupying that stall, c'mon bro that's not at all the issue at hand.

I have no agenda at all. I just disagree with you and think you're being ridiculous on this particular point. You seem to think a Rivian shouldn't ever charge at a Supercharger if they might block a 2nd stall and you keep saying "he blocked 3 other cars" to make your point sound more dramatic. Him charging meant 1 charger was not usable for Teslas for 10 minutes -- but it would be usable for other non-Teslas. Period. He didn't block 3 chargers like you keep trying to suggest.

 

[DevSecOps]

Are you saying Tesla’s navigation directs you to an actual charger number, not just a station with x number chargers open? If so I can see how that added to the frustration If people were being directed to the blocked stall. But let’s look at the bigger picture regarding that point: Tesla opened their network to other manufacturers knowing that, and also recommended Rivian/ Ford owners block the stall to their right. So whatever one thinks of Tesla/ Musk this is a situation created by their decision to handle things this way.

Maybe Tesla should have only opened charging stations with extra space on the far right for now? And the guidance for Ford/ Rivian drivers should have been to wait in line for that spot as a courtesy?

It’s very considerate of you to move in the same situation, or use a different charger but I also don’t blame OP for not moving until he got to 70%. He said he was going to see family before he went back to the hotel. When I have been in that position and know I’m going to check in late I expect that most hotels will have little to no parking left and if they have a charger I expect it will be occupied or even blocked by an ICE vehicle at that point. So I would definitely not count on that being an option for additional overnight charging.

OP said Mr Muscles claimed he didn’t have a right to be there, that it was for Teslas only. Obviously we only get one side of it but I don’t see why he would lie about that.

It directs you to a station that has open chargers. In this case there was a open charger, which the OP was blocking and therefore Tesla would route vehicles to it.

The OP didn't state that he said he had no right to be there, he said "that I have no right to do this". "This" in my opinion, is the act of blocking an additional stall.

Blaming the whole thing on Tesla is not the approach I would go for. The reason is because this happens at non-Telsa units all the time. Etiquette is lacking across the board. If this was a Tesla specific problem then, yes, I would say that Tesla has to do something about it, but people being inconsiderate at charging stations in not unique to Tesla.

 

[SANZC02]

…If this was a Tesla specific problem then, yes, I would say that Tesla has to do something about it, but people being inconsiderate at charging stations in not unique to Tesla.

I think this is where your argument falls apart, this is a Tesla specific problem.

They opted to open the network to other vehicles without first setting up the stations to be able to accommodate them. They have chargers that are capable of this just not very many deployed yet.

 

[DevSecOps]

You seem to think a Rivian shouldn't ever charge at a Supercharger if they might block a 2nd stall and you keep saying "he blocked 3 other cars" to make your point sound more dramatic. Him charging meant 1 charger was not usable for Teslas for 10 minutes -- but it would be usable for other non-Teslas. Period. He didn't block 3 chargers like you keep trying to suggest.

I've never said that Rivian's shouldn't charge at SCs. Additionally, I've never said that he blocked 3 chargers. 3 cars doesn't = 3 chargers. Not once did I say either of those things.

The OP prevented 3 Tesla vehicles from charging at the unit he was blocking, one of which was able to move. Those are his words, not mine. You continue to use whataboutism that doesn't apply at all to the OPs account of the events. Your example is the equivalent of saying that it's okay to illegally park in a handicap spot so long as there's no one that's handicapped that needs it. It's okay grandma, it'll only be 10 minutes...

I think this is where your argument falls apart, this is a Tesla specific problem.

Completely disagree. Lack of charging etiquette and inconsiderate behavior is not at all specific to Tesla. People have been double parking, idling, charging beyond 80% SOC, using spots for parking instead of charging, and the list goes on, at all charging units. The real issue is that some people think it's okay because in this case it's blocking Teslas.

 

[SoCal Rob]

I completely agree with everything you said. I want to touch on this for a minute though. If I took a pull through because nothing else was available I would use the pull through and waited until one of the other ones was open and then moved. Or I would have put a piece of paper saying call me with my cell if you need this spot. On the other hand I would absolutely not give up the spot to a Rivian with a trailer if all others were full. That's first come, first serve and not at all what the OP did. But blocking it when others are open is just rude.

I'm also the guy who would move his EV at 11pm from a hotel charger if I knew others were waiting. I know most people would be like "ah hell no!" I often get to hotels and need to charge around midnight for the next morning, so I do what I would hope others would do for me.

I try to be reasonable and considerate. I expect other people to be reasonable but I am not surprised if they aren’t. I don’t necessarily expect other people to be considerate and I consider it an added bonus when they are.

Even a reasonable and considerate person may have to leave their vehicle while charging and they may not be able to leave a note or, more likely, not be willing to risk someone else taking a picture of the note and posting it to social media with a rant about the person leaving their vehicle unattended and thinking their note was reasonable or considerate. They’ve basically been doxxed as a reward for their attempt at being considerate.

Even if the person is there, many circumstances may prevent them from taking action. Let’s say there is a Tesla charging at a pull-through RAN spot in the future. There are a couple Rivians waiting and the next in line is a Rivian with a trailer of some sort. Now a Rivian departs from a regular slot. Should the Tesla driver disconnect and move over to the regular spot even though the charging cord won’t reach? I don’t think so. If the RANs have been upgraded with longer cables should the Tesla disconnect and risk another Rivian grabbing the empty spot while the Rivian with camper uses the pull-through they just abandoned? The risk of delays or confrontations is elevated and most people in the Tesla driver’s position would stay right where they are. Could they get out and walk over to the other waiting Rivians to explain the situation and rely on the honor system as their guarantee they’ll stay where they are? Sure, they could, but I think the average person is unlikely to go through all that.

My point is that even reasonable and considerate people may not risk negative consequences in order to be reasonable and considerate. This is why Good Samaritan laws were enacted: people who would otherwise do the right thing might not if their attempt could result in negative consequences. I’m not trying to equate EV charging and life-saving measures, just showing that no matter how low or high the stakes, people may look out for themselves first if the risk is perceived to be higher than they are willing to accept.

 

[SANZC02]

…
Completely disagree. Lack of charging etiquette and inconsiderate behavior is not at all specific to Tesla. People have been double parking, idling, charging beyond 80% SOC, using spots for parking instead of charging, and the list goes on, at all charging units. The real issue is that some people think it's okay because in this case it's blocking Teslas.

But this is where you seem to not be able to see past your bias. You are abscribing those inconsiderate behaviors to this scenario. That is simply not the case, the network is open to other vehicles, he is using it the only way possible because it has not been setup to efficiently handle the legitimate use.

Had he came in and parallel parked needlessly blocking other stations I would fully agree with your point.

 

[ksurfier]

Unfortunately, this is a long standing issue well before Rivian arrived.
Some Tesla supercharger locations are just 'special'...add to that more and more of the general population have bought tesla's and busy weekends can get ugly. I've seen a number of wild events:
A full station with a line of 5-10 cars waiting for their turn, then random people (some times more than 1 at the same time) attempt to bypass the line (blocking the Tesla that was next in line from even being able to park in the stall, usually shouting ensues) - same time had to help a gentleman who just bought a new Model S and couldn't figure out how to open/unlock the charge port. Pretty much every time you will also see Tesla's that can't back into the spot to save their lives, I'm sure some of them are stressed for driving and then also might be anxious for range/charging issues...you can also find similar issues at gas stations (Costco's for example, always interesting on weekends/busy times).

Another fun example a couple years back was a completely empty location with ~20 stalls, a random truck parked in a stall with a couple that looked liked they had too much fun night before/early morning....I could care less since no one is there and I'm charging 6 am on a weekend, another Tesla pulls up, guy knocks on their window and they don't really respond, calls the cops and likely tells them the people are distressed/unresponsive...Calvary -fire truck(s), ambulance, cop cars- show up...cop points at me {extremly pissed}, "did you call?", I point over to the guy who called (he's charging)... cop was livid and absolutely laid into him...rightfully so, what a waste of resources

Have been to that Oxnard location, it's not great as the road where the chargers are can get really busy and people drive pretty fast along it, if there's a line it's also challenging since cars are going around the waiting Tesla's, fortunately it's not open to non-Teslas (V2 I think).

The best bet is to find a low usage station and/or charge at a time that isn't busy. On weekends, charging before 9 am or after 9 pm would greatly reduce the chance of an incident...for weekdays, as long as it's before 2 pm or after 8 pm prob. fine too...

I'd also plan on just parking in the middle of the 2 stalls, in the rare chance another Rivian/Ford pulls up to use the adjacent charger, you could unplug and move to let them in...

Also, if parked correctly in the stall, maybe leaving the car while charging is a good bet too...so far all my experiences with the R1S at Tesla Superchargers have been pleasant/just answering questions from curious Tesla drivers...

Another simple way to help avoid this situation is carry a collapsible cone, put it in front of the inaccessible stall, can move if another Non-tesla shows up...sorry the OP had to deal with a complete idiot...unfortunately these issues will increase/continue.

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