Conflict at the Supercharger

[emoore]

Again you're missing the point. Let me make this easy ...

Please confirm that you're perfectly fine with a Tesla double parking at a RAN with a line of Rivians waiting to charge.

Everyone should be asking themselves if that's what they expect from EV owners. This has nothing to do with Tesla or where one charges.

If the RAN is opened up to other EVs and that's the only way a Tesla can charge then yes I'd be ok with it. That's what they have to do to charge. And it's Rivians decision to open up the network and their responsibility to ensure all cars can charge. They should install longer cables in that case.

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[COdogman]

Again you're missing the point. Let me make this easy ...

Please confirm that you're perfectly fine with a Tesla double parking at a RAN with a line of Rivians waiting to charge.

Everyone should be asking themselves if that's what they expect from EV owners. This has nothing to do with Tesla or where one charges.

I am not missing your point. Please don’t be condescending.

If the Tesla was allowed to be at the RAN station and the only way it could charge there was to double park, then yes I would be completely fine with it.

If you understood my point you would have already gathered that.

 

[Autolycus]

Again you're missing the point. Let me make this easy ...

Please confirm that you're perfectly fine with a Tesla double parking at a RAN with a line of Rivians waiting to charge.

Everyone should be asking themselves if that's what they expect from EV owners. This has nothing to do with Tesla or where one charges.

For the record: I dislike Elon. I am very critical of his recent decisions wrt the supercharging team. I am also critical of the design of V3 stations because of the conflict it will create as network opens up to non-Tesla vehicles. I also reject any notion that this is the customers' problem to solve.

All that said, I will also be very consistent on this point: Every EV charging network should be designed to accommodate ALL potential customers. Rivian should (and has plans for) design stations that work with any reasonable charge port location. To the extent that they have not already implemented port-location-neutral RAN sites, a Tesla is well within their right to "block 2 stalls" while charging.

I'll also start to push back on that terminology. They're using one of those 2 stalls, so that stall isn't blocked at all. Also, the stall is only "blocked" with respect to certain other vehicles but not with respect to _all_ other vehicles. The terminology is inherently wrong.

 

[SANZC02]

I think the funniest part of this is OP stated he would be done in 10 minutes, if someone can’t wait 10 minutes for something to open up maybe they need to reevaluate where all of their time is going.

 

[KBabione]

You handled this as well as was possible. There is no accounting for the odd emotional adolescent or two we're all bound to encounter.

Agreed - And if "Mr Muscle" comes over and starts pounding on your truck to show off, hit the "Incident Record" button to capture his antics and call 911 and let the police deal with him.

 

[DevSecOps]

If the Tesla was allowed to be at the RAN station and the only way it could charge there was to double park, then yes I would be completely fine with it.

Good to know ... I for one don't agree. There's a number of posts on this forum where people are pissed because Rivian owners used the pull through when they didn't need it. It's basically the same thing, but here we are saying it's okay now to block chargers...

Charging etiquette isn't some new crusade for me. I've been on the MME forums for years harping on people for being inconsiderate. I'll continue to advocate that we should respect other people that need to charge. If everyone doubles up on charging there will be significant problems. Charging is the #1 reason that people don't adopt EVs and one of the main reasons that people gravitate towards Tesla when they do buy EVs. Reducing the capacity by improper etiquette isn't the answer to mass adoption.

I DCFC probably 100 times a year. The experience is terrible because of the people more so than the hardware. My guess is that most people commenting don't even DCFC and have no idea what it's like. It's 100000% the worst part about driving an EV, hands down, bar none.

I'll also start to push back on that terminology. They're using one of those 2 stalls, so that stall isn't blocked at all. Also, the stall is only "blocked" with respect to certain other vehicles but not with respect to _all_ other vehicles. The terminology is inherently wrong.

Sure, but the facts are in the OP. He blocked a unit for 3 other vehicles. Whataboutism doesn't apply here.

All that said, I will also be very consistent on this point: Every EV charging network should be designed to accommodate ALL potential customers.

I agree but we have to look into the history of these units. It was cheaper for Rivian and Tesla to deploy units with shorter cords which helped EV adoption and infrastructure development. Current RAN units have very short cords as well, compared to generic CCS units. Moving forward with V4 SC and the new RAN units they should be more accommodating. We can't change what's in place, we as owners just need to be considerate of others.

 

[DuoRivians]

I take your point, but "guest" or not, it's never okay to take up two charging spots when people are waiting. Even for us "first class" Rivian owners. IMO.

The thing to understand is that there is no right charging “spot” any more. This isn’t a thing at any other charging station, and shouldn’t be a thing at Tesla’s.

Normalizing this sort of stuff is the wrong approach. If Tesla wants to install longer cables, let them. Until then, first come first serve. Just don’t charge past 75-80% SoC

 

[DuoRivians]

Again you're missing the point. Let me make this easy ...

Please confirm that you're perfectly fine with a Tesla double parking at a RAN with a line of Rivians waiting to charge.

Everyone should be asking themselves if that's what they expect from EV owners. This has nothing to do with Tesla or where one charges.

Yes, I’d be perfectly fine. As long as he moves in reasonable time after charging

 

[beyondgravity]

I am on a long road trip from PHX to Blaine WA. Great RAN charging for much of the way. Kingman Az, Barstow CA, Buttonwillow CA, Santa Nella CA.
I stopped in Davis CA to visit family. Surprisingly, although Davis is a very envoronmentally conscious city, it is a void for EV charging. Lots of level 2 destination chargers, a Tesla supercharger that is not open to Rivian, 4 EA's of which only 3 work, 2 EvGo's one functional. So needing something a bit faster than what my hotel trickle charger could give me, I ventured 9 miles to Woodland to a Tesla Supercharger that was open to Rivians. It is an 8 station location across the street from a Costco. I went on a Saturday. When I got there there were 3 stations open. The layout required that I block 2 to use one. This is going to cause a lot of problems as the adapters reach the market. BTW, I bought an A2Z just for this trip and it has functioned flawlessly the 3 times I used.

Back to the Supercharger. After I plugged in there was only one station left. A Tesla pulled up next to me and I apologized and explained that the layout required me to use the cable from his charger. He said no problem and moved to the vacant station. Next guy pulls in a few minutes later. I apologize, tell him I will only be 10-15 more minutes and he says no problem and pulls out to wait for the next station. Right away a Model S with lots of flashy trim add ons pulls in. I apologize and explain the situation to the young man in the muscle shirt with his girl friend beside him. He immediately goes into a testosterone fueled rant about me having no right to be there, it's for Teslas, it's worng for me to take two chargers. I say I am sorry, can't be helped and I will be done in 10 minutes. He tells me it can be helped by getting my non Tesla POS out of there. He continues to rant at me and my non Tesla and that I have no right to do this. I politely explain that I do have a right. That Elon sold the right for me to be here charging knowing that it would take 2 stations. I say you need to complain to Elon because he's the one who sold out your exclusive use. He continues on then moves his car in a sulk. A few minutes later my 10 minutes is done and I unhook and leave, although by this time I was considering passive aggressively continue to charge way past 70%! Anyway as I pull away He continues to yell while impressing his GF.

I can certainly see how if these stations are not retrofitted with longer cables or dual side access a situation like this could escalate. A little more testosterone in the Model S and a lot more in the Rivian (I am 77) and it could well have gotten out of hand.

You were too nice to even explain or talk to him after the first time. I would have said once and enjoyed his ranting with my phone recording. It would have provided so much entertainment to this world. (It is a shame other Tesla owners step in.) So I call it a missed opportunity actually /s

 

[COdogman]

Good to know ... I for one don't agree. There's a number of posts on this forum where people are pissed because Rivian owners used the pull through when they didn't need it. It's basically the same thing, but here we are saying it's okay now to block chargers...

Charging etiquette isn't some new crusade for me. I've been on the MME forums for years harping on people for being inconsiderate. I'll continue to advocate that we should respect other people that need to charge. If everyone doubles up on charging there will be significant problems. Charging is the #1 reason that people don't adopt EVs and one of the main reasons that people gravitate towards Tesla when they do buy EVs. Reducing the capacity by improper etiquette isn't the answer to mass adoption.

I think we are closer to agreement on this than it might appear. I agree we should always try to do the right thing and not block chargers if there is an alternative solution. That is the important part of this IMO and if we all keep that in mind when we pull up then I think it will be better for everyone. I know you want that as well.

That being said, it won’t always be possible to accomplish that, or the person (anyone) may not have a choice or wasn’t aware of the other choices, meaning it isn’t intentional. For me being tolerant is also part of being considerate. That is why I have such a problem with Mr Muscles losing his shit after being apologized to by OP and being informed he would only be there for another 10 minutes…

I also agree we need to get this figured out if we want more EV adoption, and it doesn’t feel like we are close to doing that yet. It’s the Wild West out there right now for charging so we need to try extra hard to make it work until we get to a point where every charging station and/ or every vehicle are compatible with each other.

 

[jjswan33]

I can understand a situation when someone has no other choice in a situation like this, but my issue is with people who somehow seemingly look forward to causing this type of conflict and take pleasure in it. I just think that's not a good attitude and does nothing to help the cause for electric vehicles in general. The whole "screw those Tesla owners" thing is just ridiculous, even in a situation where one particular Tesla owner was being a jackass.

It's not ridiculous. What is ridiculous is that the Tesla owners feel entitled or privileged at a SC station and feels the need to make a scene. It would be the equivalent of a ID4 owner throwing a hissy fit at an EA station because they have to wait 10 minutes.

I won't speak for others but I am not going to take pleasure in anything other than witnessing a grown adult acting like a toddler, I mean most of us learned to share in kindergarten.

 

[DevSecOps]

That being said, it won’t always be possible to accomplish that, or the person (anyone) may not have a choice or wasn’t aware of the other choices, meaning it isn’t intentional. For me being tolerant is also part of being considerate. That is why I have such a problem with Mr Muscles losing his shit after being apologized to by OP and being informed he would only be there for another 10 minutes…

Tolerance is a part of being considerate for sure. But there has to be balance otherwise you'll get walked all over.

I think there's a lot of assumptions being made throughout this thread. I read the irate Tesla owner in the OP as having issue with occupying 2 stalls. Some other people take it as the person complaining because it's a non-Tesla. I find it hard to believe that someone would get irate over an EV charging in 1 stall. I do see how someone could be pissed over 1 person blocking a usable stall. Others claiming that the Tesla owner is privileged or entitled is the opposite of what I think. If anyone is espousing privilege it would be the person who is preventing others from charging. It really comes down to how we perceive the events and a lot of people on this forum have hatred towards Elon and Tesla which makes them perceive the events in favor of the Rivian owner. Let's remember that we only have one side of the story.

We have to also remember that Tesla's navigation routes the vehicle to open spots. It was likely routing multiple people to that one spot that was being blocked. It's very frustrating, coming from someone who DCFC's a lot, to get to a station where it said you can charge, just to find out that you can't because, as an example, an EV parked in the spot without charging (happens all the time). The app only knows that the charger isn't in use.

If it was me, I would have moved. I wouldn't feel comfortable sitting there knowing that I'm blocking access to another unit with a line of cars waiting especially when I'm at 60% SOC or greater (10 min remaining) and the hotel has L2 and I'm not leaving for another day (overnight charging). I've said since the beginning that taken the totality of the circumstances I would have left.

I've been to the units in Woodland. What the OP didn't mention was that there are Chargepoint units on one side with a buffer zone between the two (cross hatched white zone). They are L2 and never used. He could have likely asked the Tesla plugged in down there if they could swap so he wouldn't block another stall. If I was in the OPs shoes and absolutely needed the charge I would have made an attempt to swap with that vehicle. Most people are accommodating.

 

[RedRaiderRivian]

I think the funniest part of this is OP stated he would be done in 10 minutes, if someone can’t wait 10 minutes for something to open up maybe they need to reevaluate where all of their time is going.

It is crazy the way he acted. I have waited as long as 30 minutes at a location that had a single 50 kw charger in a rural area. I wasn't mad that the couple sitting in their car charging got there before me. It's there for people to use no matter who is there first.

 

[SoCal Rob]

Good to know ... I for one don't agree. There's a number of posts on this forum where people are pissed because Rivian owners used the pull through when they didn't need it. It's basically the same thing, but here we are saying it's okay now to block chargers...

Charging etiquette isn't some new crusade for me. I've been on the MME forums for years harping on people for being inconsiderate. I'll continue to advocate that we should respect other people that need to charge. If everyone doubles up on charging there will be significant problems. Charging is the #1 reason that people don't adopt EVs and one of the main reasons that people gravitate towards Tesla when they do buy EVs. Reducing the capacity by improper etiquette isn't the answer to mass adoption.

I DCFC probably 100 times a year. The experience is terrible because of the people more so than the hardware. My guess is that most people commenting don't even DCFC and have no idea what it's like. It's 100000% the worst part about driving an EV, hands down, bar none.



Sure, but the facts are in the OP. He blocked a unit for 3 other vehicles. Whataboutism doesn't apply here.



I agree but we have to look into the history of these units. It was cheaper for Rivian and Tesla to deploy units with shorter cords which helped EV adoption and infrastructure development. Current RAN units have very short cords as well, compared to generic CCS units. Moving forward with V4 SC and the new RAN units they should be more accommodating. We can't change what's in place, we as owners just need to be considerate of others.

I think it’s important for people to understand that what they see in the moment may not reflect the circumstances before they arrived. For example, if a Rivian which is not towing anything is charging at a pull-through spot and there are plenty of regular charging spots available it is easy to jump the the conclusion that the person is uneducated about charging or just plain rude. However, it may be that when that person arrived, all other spots were in use so they used the only one available: the pull-through. Then several vehicles departed making it look like they had a choice then because there is a choice now.

I find it’s a lot better to start with polite questions in situations like this. “Hi! I was wondering: Are you charging at a pull-through spot when you aren’t towing for a specific reason?” is more likely to start a productive conversation whereas, “I demand you move to a different charger because you aren’t towing anything and I am!” is more likely to start an argument.

One time I was waiting at an EA station for a few minutes and I got out to check the dispensers for an estimate of about how long it would be before another vehicle were done. There was a Hyundai Ioniq 5 at 91% set to charge to 100%. The driver’s window was down so I said hello and asked if he was heading out on a long trip. He replied that he only drives locally and he was just, “filling up.” I said, you may want to look into that since most EV batteries today are better off staying between 20% and 80% and usually the 80% to 100% charge time is very, very long. He gave a kind of, “mm hm,” and went back to his phone. I guess he did a search to see if the rando at the EA station was feeding him a line to get him to move faster. He disconnected and said thanks.

 

[jjswan33]

I think it’s important for people to understand that what they see in the moment may not reflect the circumstances before they arrived. For example, if a Rivian which is not towing anything is charging at a pull-through spot and there are plenty of regular charging spots available it is easy to jump the the conclusion that the person is uneducated about charging or just plain rude. However, it may be that when that person arrived, all other spots were in use so they used the only one available: the pull-through. Then several vehicles departed making it look like they had a choice then because there is a choice now.

This actually happened to me in Truckee last summer. I arrived all stations were full, 1st person to leave was in the trailer spot. So I plugged into to charge. Move ahead 10 minutes and someone had left one of the other RAN stalls and someone with a trailer pulled in. I saw what was happening and quickly unplugged and moved and got a friendly nod from the driver.

If the other spots were all still full 0 chance I would move.

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