EV use can be more expensive than gas

[NC-Rivian]

Extensive tire wearing on EVs create dangerous nano part pollution as well. Twice more than ICE car.

And we won’t get into environmental issues caused by rare earth mining and refining.

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[wizard467]

No, just 12k batteries after 8 year warranty runs out

Replacing the battery at the 8 year replacement is not required assuming that Rivian's batteries will have a similar lifetime/degration as Tesla. The warranty for Tesla and Rivian says that it has to have at least 70% of its original capacity through the first 8 years or 150,000 (175 for quad motor) with most Teslas still having around 90% of their capacity at that mark. At 8 years and 1 day the vehicle isn't going to lose 90% of its capacity and require replacement.

Example of Tesla data:
https://insideevs.com/news/664106/tesla-battery-capacity-degradation-average-2022/

 

[shap]

This makes me wonder why the cost to fuel up (electric or petrol) is about the same. Shouldn't electricity be cheaper?

It should - but for this we need Nuclear plants (the last one we built was 25 years ago). The problem with Nuclear - is almost impossible to get approvals to build one. We prefer to kill rare birds with wind turbines, and use huge amounts of land for solar instead of building gen 4 nuclear.

Our technology (managed by Westinghouse) is so outdated, that despite sanctions on Russia, Rosatom is exempted from these sanctions as we can not manage our Nuclear sites without Russia.

 

[Zoidz]

No, just 12k batteries after 8 year warranty runs out

OMG!! I didn't know that the batteries were useless and had to be replaced at $12k the day the warranty ran out!!!

 

[shap]

Replacing the battery at the 8 year replacement is not required assuming that Rivian's batteries will have a similar lifetime/degration as Tesla. The warranty for Tesla and Rivian says that it has to have at least 70% of its original capacity through the first 8 years or 150,000 (175 for quad motor) with most Teslas still having around 90% of their capacity at that mark. At 8 years and 1 day the vehicle isn't going to lose 90% of its capacity and require replacement.

Example of Tesla data:
https://insideevs.com/news/664106/tesla-battery-capacity-degradation-average-2022/

Agree - but battery health is difficult to measure (at least now), this is why used 7-8-year-old EVs are so cheap. You can argue that an ICE engine is also can fail (and many other components of ICE), however, for ICE you have multiple options to replace failed components with non-OEM parts, or salvaged parts. You can not do the same for EV batteries.

I am glad to see that new companies popping up that actually repair the battery packs and resell them

 

[docwhiz]

https://www.recurrentauto.com/research/lessons-in-electric-car-battery-health

250 million is a lot. That’s how many miles Recurrent vehicles have driven since they connected to our services to monitor their EV performance and health. There are some optimistic, high level takeaways in all this data.

• For most EVs, the lithium ion batteries are in quite good shape and only 1.5% have been replaced in Recurrent's community of 15,000 cars.
• Battery replacements due to excessive degradation are very rare.

We don’t know exactly how long the EV batteries on the road today will last because we haven’t seen many hit the end of life stage, yet. However, from observing the oldest models we can - Tesla Model S and Nissan LEAF - we see a range of outcomes. Early Nissan LEAFs had passive thermal management systems and problematic chemistries for hot climates, so the first generation batteries often degraded enough to warrant a replacement. The lesson was that high heat absolutely impacts battery health. On the Tesla Model S, we see that many older models still get 80% of their original range, which is an indication that the batteries have held up quite well over the decade since they were released.

Of 10 year old EVs, only 4% have had batteries replaced and this includes many cars such as Nissan which had poor battery management.

 

[djsider2]

Range Rover Evoque doesn't sound like an equivalent vehicle. It really needs to be a 3 row SUV that has 500+ hp and a giddy up in the 3-4.5 sec range...

 

[EVTrucking]

Let's keep politics out of this. If you think EV manufacturing is clean and slave work on mines is fine, think again.

We are here talking about real numbers and having EV to save money is not always (or more often than not) work.

Pretty much nothing manufactured is clean! ICE vs EV manufacturing impact is probably a wash. My comments are squarely directed at the continued absurd burning and spewing of toxic particle filled exhaust from billions of ICEs every day. The thousands of tanker trucks hauling toxic gasoline to leaking underground storage tanks. The environmental impact of exploring, drilling, pumping, shipping, refining oil is covered up, hushed up and not reported. Oil fracking is considered the worst of the worst for environmental impact.

I am not talking about global warming but rather the direct daily impact to each of us in our communities. There is no financial justification for being that maliciously ignorant, short sited and selfish. Focus on the exhaust tailpipes!!

 

[shap]

It’s not about cheap, it’s all about climate change. If you want to talk about costs, what is the cost of all of the record storms that we’ve been having?

Pretty much nothing manufactured is clean! ICE vs EV manufacturing impact is probably a wash. My comments are squarely directed at the continued absurd burning and spewing of toxic particle filled exhaust from billions of ICEs every day. The thousands of tanker trucks hauling toxic gasoline to leaking underground storage tanks. The environmental impact of exploring, drilling, pumping, shipping, refining oil is covered up, hushed up and not reported. Oil fracking is considered the worst of the worst for environmental impact.

I am not talking about global warming but rather the direct daily impact to each of us in our communities. There is no financial justification for being that maliciously ignorant, short sited and selfish. Focus on the exhaust tailpipes!!

Like I said - it is a political/environmental point of view. We were talking about a pure finance comparison between ICE and EV. Nothing else.

 

[Epzey]

You live in a place with cheap gas obviously. I drove a Range Rover (full fat) for almost 20yrs. Drove a Disco and Classic RR for 10yrs before that. I’ve put 17k on my Rivian so far. 17k on the RR outside of gas would cost close to 1500 in fluids rotation and labor. Outside of charging that has cost me nothing. RR cost almost a 100$ to fill with premium.

Also no gas stations suddenly decide to give out free gas; charging stations do. Then there are the perpetually free chargers both fast and L2. Sucks you live in a place with such high kW cost but maybe you should have done that math before?

I’m willing to bet you did bare minimum preventative maintenance on your Evoque like most people that drive Rovers.

I never had a single problem that was major or ‘common’ with my Rovers. You have to do treat them like high maintenance women; give it what it needs before it even knows it needs it. That cost money and time.

I’ve been a V8 guy all my life never thought I would own an EV but here I am.

Lastly, you bought a vehicle designed by Victoria Beckham your decision making skills are suspect to begin with. The Velar might be the only dumber decision you could make.

 

[UnsungZero_OldTimeAdMan]

It can be more, depending on what factors you choose to include or ignore. Fuel and electricity prices aren't constants, from coast-to-coast. Not long ago, here in SoCal, a gallon of 89 octane soared past $7. It will again. Matter of time. Public charging can vary from 70¢ to 27¢ per kWh, pending where, when and whether you are a membership subscriber. And, sure, new cars at this price point usually come with a limited scope of free maintenance, but beyond that scope, you pay the luxury car "tax". I've owned two BMWs so far. While they were relatively reliable (contrary to popular trope), once they were out of the "free maintenance" period, they were about $1k a year for regular maintenance. Less when I DIY'ed. When things fail, often simple things, and with professionals involved, they were $2~3k a pop every 2~3 years. Less typical failures cost more than that!

For me, my geographic location and my use case so far, the R1T is around 50~60% for operating expenses. And I'm selective on when I charge at public chargers; off-peak or near off-peak. If not considering cost of insurance—which IMO is artificially inflated for EVs by the carriers, intentionally or out of ignorance—it's costing me less to run from month-to-month.

Generalizations are... inherently inaccurate and inconclusive. Overall reality is much more nuanced than each individual use cases/data points. It's even moot to compare costs from two different states.

 

[EVTrucking]

Like I said - it is a political/environmental point of view. We were talking about a pure finance comparison between ICE and EV. Nothing else.

That is exactly what I am talking about! You cannot financially justify ICE over EV

 

[EVTrucking]

It can be more, depending on what factors you choose to include or ignore. Fuel and electricity prices aren't constants, from coast-to-coast. Not long ago, here in SoCal, a gallon of 89 octane soared past $7. It will again. Matter of time. Public charging can vary from 70¢ to 27¢ per kWh, pending where, when and whether you are a membership subscriber. And, sure, new cars at this price point usually come with a limited scope of free maintenance, but beyond that scope, you pay the luxury car "tax". I've owned two BMWs so far. While they were relatively reliable (contrary to popular trope), once they were out of the "free maintenance" period, they were about $1k a year for regular maintenance. Less when I DIY'ed. When things fail, often simple things, and with professionals involved, they were $2~3k a pop every 2~3 years. Less typical failures cost more than that!

For me, my geographic location and my use case so far, the R1T is around 50~60% for operating expenses. And I'm selective on when I charge at public chargers; off-peak or near off-peak. If not considering cost of insurance—which IMO is artificially inflated for EVs by the carriers, intentionally or out of ignorance—it's costing me less to run from month-to-month.

Generalizations are... inherently inaccurate and inconclusive. Overall reality is much more nuanced than each individual use cases/data points. It's even moot to compare costs from two different states.

Simply focus on the exhaust tailpipes as you drive and breath in deeply, that is not a generalization, it’s reality!! Just because it doesn’t stink real bad is not black in color does not mean it’s okay for your lungs!!

Stop being lemmings, sheep, parrots … Focus on the tailpipes and think about what you are doing to yourself, your family and everyone else. Stop being self centered and selfish.

 

[Riptide]

New luxury car comes with free 3 year maintenance and really needs oil and filter changes. Not a good comparison imho.

Even 5 years old car does not need 70% of what you mentioned

And those maintenance items are very inexpensive. The EV tire replacement cost is an additional item that should be thrown in.

 

[Glembi2]

This thread reminds me of joke about how OPEC keeps making profits:

Reporter: how do you handle competition from electric vehicles?

OPEC spokesperson: Easy. Repeat this pattern.

Year 1: high gas prices - start of interest in EVs
Year 2: high gas prices - more interest in EVs
Year 3: high gas prices - some buy EVs
Year 4: low gas prices - EVERYONE buys gas guzzlers
Year 5: high gas prices - start of interest in EVs

Don’t remember whether this is actually correct but still makes me laugh ?

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