I Spent Two Days With Gen-2 R1 Vehicles. Here’s My Thoughts as a Rivian Owner...

[teddyang]

And he also told me the exact opposite. Haha. Granted, Kyle was in group 2, so maybe there was a change in direction. Wassym has confirmed on Reddit that blind spot is coming to V1.

crossposting Wassym's exact response...

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[olsonnet]

The fact that they are now charging significantly extra to get the standard awful Rivian audio system is criminal. Can only imagine how terrible the base audio is now.

 

[Snazzy Labs]

The fact that they are now charging significantly extra to get the standard awful Rivian audio system is criminal. Can only imagine how terrible the base audio is now.

I tried it. It was worse. Not that much worse, but that’s not saying much.

 

[ironpig]

I tried it. It was worse. Not that much worse, but that’s not saying much.

I would not pay for any Rivian audio system until there are some serious reviews out there. I have the original Meridian system and it's fine, but it's baseline fine. I'd be highly suspect that they have designed something worth charging more for - with the same basic speaker layout and only software improvements.

 

[UnsungZero_OldTimeAdMan]

Thanks for this, disappointing that some basic features aren't coming to the gen1 vehicles cause really it seems like "they just don't want to" and no technical reason for it. Thanks for drilling them on it and hopefully they will change their minds someday.

Unfortunate, but also inevitable/expected. It is a for-profit business after all. Decisions for sake of business interests are expected. The new features are good, some I wish I could have. But at the same time, it doesn't make my time in my truck any less enjoyable. Even now knowing the long promised Apple Watch As Key will be gen2-only. As slow as PAAK and proximity can be at times (usually on first drive after being parked a long time), it does not make life unlivable. All the FSD stuff... I never had any interest in it to begin with. Barely use standard cruise as it is, with any of the cars I've owned. Force of habit. Spotify being lumped under a paid subscription, that's a little annoying since phone-to-vehicle streaming hasn't really improved enough to take its place. So, if you want native infotainment that's decent, you gotta pony up. Again, not end-of-the-world if subscription fee is reasonable.

And since Apple Watch As Key is now gen2 only, they really should start offering keybands in the Gear Shop, even in limited numbers per quarter. I get that it's not the most secure tech. But that's what legal disclaimers are for!

 

[evhelphub]

The "not a refresh," refreshed R1 platform is going to make a lot of people mad about some of the previously discussed features no longer coming to 1st gen.

Sucks to hear about the sound system.

Otherwise, I'm excited to get my second R1T, hopefully this year.

 

[RealBillNye]

Rivian invited me out to Seattle last week to check out the refreshed R1T and R1S flagships. There’s going to be a lot of great content out today, but I wanted to talk to you as someone who has owned and daily driven both an R1T and R1S for the last two years. Owner to owner—or potential owner. While these new vehicles look similar on the surface, they’re indeed very different with the vast majority of internal components altered or made entirely new. This means lower production costs and better construction—good things necessary for Rivian’s survival; however, so doing will leave some of us gen-1 owners quite mad.

“Under The Hood”

Let’s start with things you won’t notice but will increase reliability while lowering assembly costs. Their new “zonal architecture” cuts 17 ECUs down to just 7. Entire harnesses have been eliminated, over a mile of wiring at nearly 50 pounds of weight has been shed, and the infotainment PCB now shares a cold plate and PCIe interconnect with the AXM (autonomy experience module). This doesn’t just save on component cost, but provides huge improvements on assembly times. The infotainment SoC has remained the same with no updates. Rivian engineers tell me software optimization—rather than new silicon—has allowed new visuals and features (which we’ll discuss soon) to come to gen-1 hardware and mostly maintain one software branch. Great news.

Other under-the-hood changes include the elimination of the ethernet bus, which allows for several systems to remain entirely dormant while others (like the module that runs Gear Guard) stay live. Rivian tells me this will result in “industry-leading” phantom drain performance. Servicing the BMS previously required dropping the entire pack (as it was on top)—a 10-hour job—and has now been relocated to the underside of the vehicle, allowing for many pack repairs in under an hour. Physical fuses have also been eliminated in favor of e-fuses, saving time at service and yielding better diagnostic data of failures.

All battery packs have received minor redesigns. Large and Max packs now have 2170 cells with 53g of density rather than 50g, which helps push range to 420 miles on the dual-motor max pack with the most efficient wheels. I want to credit Rivian with doing anything here, but this is likely just Samsung SDI shifting the majority of production to their INR21700-53G. That said, they changed their die-casting process to reduce mass and simplify manufacturing—“substantially lowering” cost. Exciting and new is the shift to LFP in the standard pack, which claims up to 270 miles EPA. This, like most LFP packs, will be safe to charge to 100% all the time with little to no degradation. Rivian refused to disclose their LFP provider, but it’s pretty obvious. The state of Illinois just gave beaucoup money ($2B) to Chinese battery producer Gotion for a new LFP factory slated to open at the end of the year, very close to Normal. Gotion already has a factory in California that will allow standard-range models to qualify for the full EV tax credit, while the new factory awaits completion. A little birdie tells me the new LFP pack can hit 240kW while DC fast charging. This would be an industry near-record and excellent if true.

Other minor changes include a heat pump, which will obviously help winter range, and the compressor has been moved off of the firewall to help with NVH. Unfortunately, this comes at the expense of reasonably substantial front trunk space. Not only is there a pretty sizable square cutout from the sub-frunk, but the frunk itself is both shallower and with more gradual walls. Volumetrically, it’s a LOT smaller. There are some things redesigned—gone is the bifold subfloor and magnet in favor of a single piece that can be propped up. It feels functional if a bit cheap. There are also two “pockets” on each side of the frunk tub; however, they’re relatively small and I’m not sure what you’d put in them beyond some documentation or a compressor hose. I don’t know how I didn’t grab a photo of it; alas, I failed to do so. Apologies.

Drivetrain & Suspension

Goodbye, Bosch. Hello, new in-house, two-motor drive units! Not only does Rivian have replacements for the prior quad-motor design, but they are also adding a tri-motor configuration to the lineup. You’ve seen the specs already, I’m sure… 850HP and a 2.9s 0-60 for the tri-motor, while the quad-motor offers 1,025HP, nearly 1,200 lb-ft of torque, and a 0-60 time of less than 2.5s (for R1T—R1S is slower). These new motors are incredible. Oil-cooled with the inverters mounted atop (with a shared heat exchanger betwixt them), they have a smooth responsiveness I’ve never felt with my Bosch units. Owners know that pulling off of (or rapidly applying) the pedal creates a bit of a “lurch,” and throttle input delay exists (however small). That’s not present in these motors at all, and I now feel the pedal travel and mapping feel exceeds Tesla (which I’ve long considered the benchmark for throttle response). It’s wickedly good.

The tri-motor is a really special configuration. See, these new units still have the half-shaft mechanical disconnect at the rear; however, it is dynamic and now works irrespective of drive mode. So, floor your throttle in Conserve, and it’ll re-connect the power and give you the beans you seek. Additionally, other drive modes may disconnect the rear linkage unbeknownst to you—seamlessly maximizing range and performance. Frankly, it makes me wonder if some of the drive modes are redundant now. I asked Mason Verbridge, principal drive unit engineer if this would also mean power is applied at the rear from a stop in Conserve mode to save on front tire wear. He confirmed it would. Sweet! While this trick still works on the quad-motor, you don’t have the efficiency of the single-motor Enduro front-drive unit (FDU) which yields markedly lower range. While the dual-motor configuration is still the range-king, only BARELY. Mason told me on the highway, you’d only likely see a real-world range difference of 1-2 miles (yes, you read that right) between the dual and tri-motor of the same pack size. Frickin’ awesome.

There’s a new “light” regen mode that will be coming to all Rivian models (gen-1 included) that is very subtle and probably ideal for new EV drivers and/or to accommodate passengers susceptible to car sickness.

Suspension got a massive upgrade. Air springs have been revised, and the suspension feel in general has been changed—particularly on R1S. The truck also feels “smoother,” and gone is the awful low-speed squeaky sound, but the R1S is the vehicle on which the new suspension shines. I overheard an unnamed engineer talking to an unnamed PR person who asked what the big difference was with gen-2 ride quality. They responded under their breath, “well, we made the suspension actually good.” On R1S, gone is the super firm front end and waffly, floaty rear end. Recalibrated spring rates provide significantly smoother road feel without the "bouncy” feeling experienced on gen-1's “Soft" suspension mode. Active dampers tighten things up really nicely in Sport mode with a more reasonable rebound rate. The best equivalence I can offer is that you can now feel the road through your hands and legs but not through your teeth. Gone is the oversteer bounce in tight corners, feeling nearly as planted as the gen-1 R1T—an awe-inspiring achievement considering the wheelbase differences. Long story short, if you had put me in the passenger seat blindfolded, I would have never guessed I was in an R1S in a million years. It feels SO MUCH BETTER I can't even begin to explain it. It's the single biggest generational upgrade that makes me consider trading in my “old" R1S.

Driver+ Autonomy and False Advertising

Do you even self-drive, bro…? Gen-2 brings an entirely new platform that includes 11 high-res cameras (which look phenomenal—the best I’ve seen in any car ever—and are a massive leap from the [pardon my Spanish] mierda they were previously shipping). Two new NVIDIA SoCs bring 10x the compute of gen-1, and improved radars and ultrasonics help those cameras see better and further. VP of Autonomy James Philbin says Rivian really believes in multiple sensor modalities—that vision-only is not the way forward. Of course, this brought questions: “Well, is this going to fully self-drive, or will this be a level 3/4 system, etc.?” They answered: “There’s no reason this hardware would prevent that; it’s really a software problem.” But they’re also making very few promises for anything other than (1) better visualizations on the binnacle display, (2) lane changes, and (3) eventual hands-free driving under limited circumstances. It remains limited to previously mapped highways, and there are no plans to let it function on city streets.

The lane change functionality works really well. You now pull the drive stalk towards you twice to engage Driver+ (instead of down) and pushing the opposing turn stalk up or down begins a signal, ensures the lane is clear, and then makes the lane change quite aggressively and confidently. It’s good. If the lane is blocked, or there are rapidly approaching vehicles, it keeps trying to look for an opening for about 10 seconds, and if it can’t complete the maneuver, it cancels the request and stays in the current lane. Good design, in my opinion. The driver monitoring system is alleged to be present in the rear-view mirror, according to the press release; however, I could not see it in the press cars. I questioned a PR rep, who told me they asked Wassym Bensaid, Chief Software Officer, and were told the cabin camera was removed. If true, how they’ll get to “hands-free” driving remains unanswered.

One thing that WAS answered and will frustrate any current owner is that none of these features will be coming to the gen-1 vehicles. No lane changes. Period. I also got a “no comment” when I asked about trailer assist. These features were advertised as recently as yesterday on Rivian’s website. Philbin, Bensaid, and a number PR folks confirmed with me lane changes WILL NOT be coming to existing vehicles because they “just couldn’t make it work,” which sucks. I talked with RJ Scaringe (CEO) about autonomy 2.5 years ago at the Breckenridge unveil event. He remarked even then that the old hardware was likely capable of level 3-4 autonomy and just needed software improvements. It seems that didn’t end up being remotely true, as we won’t even be getting simple lane changes that have been on every major autonomy platform from every major automaker since 2020. Light your torches, everyone. This new system carries the same suggestion of future potential, but given history, we’ll see…

Lane changes, by the way, are considered part of “Rivian Autonomy Platform+” and, while free to begin with, are suggested to be bundled with other unannounced autonomy features at an additional price in the future. Gen-1 cars will keep all existing autonomy features free (in addition to generalized improvements) but will no longer get new features.

An Outside Delight

The most significant changes visually are found inside, but there are some exterior changes too. Gone are the fog lights, and in their stead are new turn signals. No longer will one of the DRLs turn yellow; they’ll both remain on with a separate, lower, but more visible and brighter amber light. The amber turn signal light on the sideview mirrors has also been repositioned and appears more radiant. The green light bar has been redesigned with ten individual segments. When plugged in, they reflect the state of charge to the nearest 10%. e.g., seven illuminated green sections indicate a 65-74% SOC. These segments are found at both the front and rear of the vehicle; however, the rear bar has some extra tricks up its sleeve. You can display amber-colored animations to help alert and direct traffic flow if you’re stuck on either shoulder (left or right) or even broken down in the middle of the highway. This is an excellent safety feature, but not the only one! Adaptive headlights also make their way to gen -2 vehicles with active headlights that adjust the beam pattern, disabling segments to reduce glare for oncoming traffic while keeping the road illuminated for yourself. It ships later this year as a software update to gen-2 vehicles only.

The tri-motor and quad-motor vehicles come with a new electro-chromatic roof. In addition to heat rejection, it does a pretty good job at blocking out light when you don’t want light rather than having to put up a finnicky sun shade. It’s not the best electrochromic glass I’ve seen and always looks a bit… “frosty,” but it’s a nice option I’d certainly opt for given Rivian’s current glass roofs do f***-all when it comes to IR rejection.

New wheels and tires arrive with this refresh. Gone is the 21” (sorry, folks), and in its stead arrive two new 22-inch wheel models. An aerodynamic wheel with a special Pirelli compound looks fantastic (both cover on and off), and a high-performance 22-inch wheel with “a UHP Michelin tire package comes with (and only with) the quad-motor. A new 20-inch wheel and ADV all-season tire also arrive from Goodyear, and I suspect this will be the base-model. It's boring but nice from a ride-quality standpoint.

Oh, blue. Blue’s the new color for the quad-motor configuration. Tri-motor gets yellow, and dual-motor keeps silver. The calipers, badging, and everything in between… all a subtle grey-blue. Oh yeah, Gear Guard Gary also appears as a badge on the quad-motor on the bottom-right of the tailgate. Half the Rivian team hates it, but they’re wrong. It’s absolutely delightful. #TeamGary

Range Rover? Never Heard Of It.

Rivian is clearly aiming to position the R1 as a proper luxury vehicle. While the dual-motor and performance dual-motor retain the existing interior (which maintains the “Adventure” name), the tri-motor and quad-motor ship with a new “Ascend” trim. Holy balls, the Ascend trim is next-level. Gone are the chilewich and yellow accents… we’re going plaid. The new plaid design is stunning, with “plaid-style” accents everywhere. The seats are now checkered plaid, the black ash wood inlay is gone, and in its stead is not just the brown ash found on the prior Forest Edge trim, but there’s now a gorgeous walnut and white “driftwood” dependent on the leather color. Speaking of leather, EVERYTHING is wrapped in leather. Every area that had hard plastic has been replaced with stitched leather. The airbag? Stitched leather. Door pocket? Stitched leather. Under-dash storage area? Stitched leather.

There is stitching, piping, and premium-feeling synthetic leather on literally every surface. It feels like the car is $20,000 more expensive inside (more on that in a moment). The two-tone seats are gorgeous; the glossy silver plastic dash accent is now muted grey or bronze and the grab handles and seat headrests have gorgeous plain fabric. Wowzers! It’s stunning inside. In fact, I have a hard time believing this doesn’t add CONSIDERABLE expense; however, I think that when the R2 hits the market, the “cheaper” R1 trims will likely be killed. The R1 is now a luxury car designed to compete with the Range Rovers, the Lexuses, and the Mercedes of the world—not the Model Y, not the Mach-E. This doesn’t quite reach the ultra-luxury market, but it gets really friggin’ close.

Well, save for the sound system. The current “Rivian Elevation” system is part of the high-end Ascend package and it still sounds like crap—at least compared to the prior Meridian system (which was already worse than almost every other car in this price range). If you opt for the “Adventure” trim, you get an even worse sound system than exists today with fewer speakers and black grilles. This news is especially frustrating given that cabin isolation from the new suspension and NVH improvements make the cabin MUCH quieter on the highway. Would be the perfect opportunity to let a great sound system shine. No such luck.

Rivian, priced where you are, the sound system is embarrassing. Do better.

Software Affair, Mon Frère

Updates to software are going to make prior-gen owners both really happy and really sad. Coming to all vehicles is a new visual interface design. OK, starting at the binnacle… The widgets on the left (map, tire pressure, efficiency) remain the same, but they’re now windowed in a little “card.” This gives more room for the improved visualization (only on gen-2) in the center, and the speed, gear selection, and power meter remain on the right side (if not a little visually improved).

The main display brings with it a lot of changes. The drive mode pages now show handsome cel-shaded 3D renders running inside of Unreal Engine. You can switch from one drive mode to another and there’s a seamless real-time rendered transition that looks great. Rivian’s very certain this design language will age better than their current implementation, and I have to agree. Sporting the fresh new look is a new typeface. It’s bold, it’s wide, it’s hyper-readable. Gorgeous? Not really, but this is a car. Seeing a bold speedometer looks SO MUCH BETTER than what we’ve got right now. The size of everything is larger, the spacing is more well-considered, and it looks awesome.

The climate controls are redesigned and laid out in a way that makes a lot more sense, but more importantly, there are PRESETS, BABY! Both the driver and passenger can set up two vent presets that can be recalled at any time. Finally, a real solution for multi-driver households. It’s great.
As demonstrated earlier this month, Google Cast will be coming to the fleet (both old and new) so you can watch any video supported by Google Cast (which is most) quickly and easily, right from your smartphone. Unfortunately, such a feature will not come free. This will require Rivian’s new “Connect+” premium connectivity subscription.

Also locked behind a paywall? Apple Music support. Rivian worked with Apple to bring full Dolby Atmos Spatial Audio support. Is it gimmicky? Yes. Is it fun? Also yes. It really does play with all of the speakers available to it and gives a nice “airiness” not found with the other streaming services onboard. Unfortunately, the sound system (as discussed previously) is too lousy to really take advantage of it. Wait... so why isn't this free? Strangely, it seems Connect+ includes an Apple Music subscription. But can you just login to an existing account if you already pay for Apple Music and use that? I couldn't get a clear answer from Rivian; however, I would presume so as Spotify, Tidal, Alexa (weird), and the WiFi hotspot are all moving under the Connect+ umbrella.

If you opt not to pay for Connect+, you’ll still get live navigation (nice), remote vehicle commands, and digital key functionality.

Speaking of digital keys, gen-2 offers support for Apple car key within Apple Wallet. Nice! You can now use your iPhone or Apple Watch to unlock/lock/start the vehicle by holding it wherever you’d have your key card. You can also share keys with friends, manage key permissions, and more. This functionality continues to work even after your iPhone/Watch battery dies (the same cannot be said of the BLE PAAK). Awesome! Unfortunately, this is a hardware thing and only available for gen-2.

WTF, Monsieur

Two fairly awesome features that could come to gen-1, seem not to be coming to gen-1.

(1) Ambient lighting. Gen-2 cars can switch between 8 custom-curated colors for the ambient lighting. The color picker has a little cel-shaded art theme and curated sound scape. Absurd, but cute. Why not just a regular RGB color picker? Jeff Hammoud, Chief Design Officer, said: “We don’t want people making their car, say, pink.” This is lame. Let customers make their car whatever color they want.

What about us gen-1 customers? I asked Hammoud, who told me that gen-1 lacked the hardware lighting to make this possible. When I disputed that, saying: “Why? It has RGB lighting. You’ve done two Halloween updates: once red and once green.” He simply replied this feature is gen-2 only. That didn’t seem right, so I asked multiple PR reps. Two asked unnamed higher-ups that confirmed ambient lighting colors were not coming to gen-1. Then, I asked Wassym. He smiled, evaded the question, and said gen-2 makes the lighting possible and that it will not be coming to gen-1. This conflicts with what Wassym has told other people: that gen-2 lighting is better quality and more configurable through software, so, while unclear if it will come to gen-1, it’s technically possible.

Here’s my opinion: let Wassym and his team bring it. I don’t know if there are spectrum or luminance limitations of the gen-1 RGB diodes or not. Perhaps there are. Maybe not every color may come. But at least bring a few of them. We know the colors can change; it has been done before. The ugly, sickly white that exists right now is hardly a great vibe.

(2) Blind spot camera monitoring. In gen-2, when you initiate a lane change, a camera feed of the lane next to you shows up on the left/right side of the binnacle. Many other automakers like Hyundai, Kia, and Tesla do this. It’s awesome. This is something Wassym has publicly stated was forthcoming—both on Reddit and in other Q&As. In Seattle, I was told by a number of people (without explanation)—including from Wassym himself—that blindspot camera monitoring is not coming to gen-1. No reason was given which makes me think its a strategic decision rather than a technical one.

I know the cameras in gen-1 are not as high resolution as gen-2. I know their positioning is potentially less ideal. Bring the feature anyway. It was said to be coming (just like lane changes grrrr) and to pull the rug out at the last moment really sucks.

A Word, Please...

I very much got the feeling in Seattle (more than I ever did at Breckenridge in 2021) that many teams are not “on the same page.” I get it… not everybody is PR-trained. Having engineers attend these events instead of just PR and marketing is invaluable. But often, what PR and upper-level management stated directly conflicted with what engineers and department heads said just minutes before/after. Even within PR, I could get consistent answers to some questions.

Rivian is made up of amazing people—from top to bottom. I’ve never been around a group so well-informed, so passionate to share, and so excited about the product they make. That said, I can’t shake the feeling that many decisions being made on “what’s gen-1 vs gen-2” are done from a strategic positioning level and not a technical one.

Please, Rivian, listen to wonderful people like Wassym, who spend countless hours talking to customers, gathering feedback, and encouraging community. Please recognize that these gen-2 cars are engineering marvels and that artificial fragmentation needn’t be required to justify their existence.

These gen-2 cars are evolutionary, yes. But they’re also revolutionary. At nearly every turn, I was blown away by their performance, build quality, and attention to detail. I’m more bullish than ever about Rivian’s path forward, and you should be too.

Bonus: Camp Kitchen, But For Real...

The camp kitchen is almost here, finally, again?! Gone is the tunnel kitchen, sink, and water tank. The new design stows away into a briefcase-sized induction range with cutting board, string lights, and not much else. Not nearly as ambitious, but as an R1S owner, I'm all for it! Ships "later this year." I'll believe it when I see it.

Were the new suspension updates made with hardware changes?

 

[JAH]

I love my truck and all the new updates and I'm looking forward to an upgraded model at some point in the future, but it feels very off-brand and weird for Rivian to lie about the gen 1's interior lighting ability.

I'd be happy with a permanent halloween 2022 option (red lights and lock sounds). We all know it's possible and it's extremely weird to gaslight us, saying it's not possible to do.

It's such a relatively minor thing, but really off-putting.

 

[Mellowyellow]

Seems like there are a lot of promised things that aren't actually going to Gen 1. That stinks. I understand hardware changes but if they could but just won't...that's a different story. I was looking forward to using Apple watch as a key. This is great news for everyone buying Gen 2 though!

 

[IGR]

Both exciting and disappointing news.

 

[ozziegt]

Were the new suspension updates made with hardware changes?

Watch out of spec's video. New spring rates, and bushings and damping. So yes very much hardware changes. They now have separate hardware spec for the T vs S. This is the one that stings me the most because I have been complaining about the ride quality of my R1S since the day I bought it, and it sounds like they can't fix it with software.

 

[Sgt Beavis]

I WANT A GARY BADGE!
Also, the camp kitchen is kinda lame. I'd MUCH rather buy the @Thunderbolt Adventure kitchen.

 

[djsider2]

Both exciting and disappointing news.

This is fine. When its our turn to upgrade, there will be even more. Once they tell me I can go 300 miles highway on a large pack, then I'll be disappointed.

 

[UnsungZero_OldTimeAdMan]

Watch out of spec's video. New spring rates, and bushings and damping. So yes very much hardware changes. They now have separate hardware spec for the T vs S. This is the one that stings me the most because I have been complaining about the ride quality of my R1S since the day I bought it, and it sounds like they can't fix it with software.

While gen2 is better, is your gen1's ride horrible and couldn't be lived with? There's always going to be newer/better, regardless of make or model.

 

[Jared2]

Regarding the reduction in the frunk, in my R1S, I can fit 2 sets of golf clubs in there with plenty of room for other accessories.

I usually take the drivers out of the bags because it’s just barely not wide enough and puts a small amount of strain on them if I don’t give them a bit extra room.

so my question is, did the width of the frunk also get smaller? Do you think I’ll still be able to fit 2 sets of clubs in there?

Thanks again!

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