Any recommendations on 22" Tire Replacement

[connoisseurr]

I just took off the snows and put on the Conti TC H/Ts - VERY happy as well, ride is improved and efficiency is great. Highly recommend.

Glad you finally got them on! I’m about to do my first rotation!

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[protamine]

I believe this might the one you‘re referring to:

MICHELIN DEFENDER LTX M/S2 LT275/50R22 119/116S

https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Michelin&tireModel=Defender+LTX+M/S2&partnum=75SR2DLTX2&vehicleSearch=false&fromCompare1=yes

I’m a Michelin guy so will go w the. Ltx m/s2 later this year. The 115H is 335 a tire and the 119/116 is 480. For someone who doesnt tow, is the 115 acceptable? Save $500

 

[rivianguy]

So quick report back on this. Thanks to @electruck recommendation I went ahead an installed the TerrainContact HT's on my Rivian R1S. Overall really impressed so far and I've had them on for about a month. Initial observations... They actually seem quieter than my OEM tires were. Not sure why this is (as I understand it they don't have the 'foam' for noise dampening that some tires do) but they definitely seem quieter. I haven't objectively tested this with some sort of acoustic device but it does seem noticeable. Range - Seems slightly better than my OEM's were, not massively but again on average a little bit higher than what I was getting before. Traction - I'd say these are superior in rainy Seattle weather (frequent) than my OEM's were. So net net so far very impressed and thanks for the recommendation.

 

[madhat]

Great to hear the Contis are working. Does anyone have experience with both the Contis and Michelins? Curious about noise differences, stiffness/response, and dry traction. I don’t want to drive on pillows?

 

[TampaR1T]

Forgive me for not starting a new post--I'm pulling this from my post on a different, similar thread. Also forgive me if I'm wrong...but I'll address this to the R1T owners ONLY since we both use these threads and people sometime get confused.

22-inch options. Things to remember when choosing your tire. More than size, it depends on how you're using your vehicle. I'm going with...
22" Michelin DEFENDER LTX M/S2 LT275 /50 R22 119S E1 BSW

BUT, what about all the tire rating differences?

The standard (SL) VS XL vs HL. For the weight and use of the R1S, the XL (more weight/load handled vs standard), is acceptable. The standard is never recommended. As for the E, I believe that's the LOAD RANGE as opposed to the LOAD INDEX The range is an older measure of weight and durability (by ply rating) which is somewhat outdated, but an E rating is the equivalent of a "10 ply" sidewall and doesn't reflect weight capacity.

https://www.discounttire.com/learn/load-range-load-index

The load index is the newer rating that isn't based on plys and will tell you weight capacity. The weight is more important for the heavier EVs and especially the R1T and R1S due to weight, power, etc. However, for most R1S owners, I believe the XL version with a minimum 115 load index is acceptable, but the HL version is preferred. I think the reason for this is because most R1S owners aren't going to haul like a loaded bed in a pickup like an R1T. Still, if you're towing, the weight capacity/load index is still VERY important.

For those who either haul or tow, then the HL (high load, which can carry more weight at the same size as an XL) is absolutely recommended because of the extra weight you're adding to your vehicle's gross weight. For R1T owners who are going to maybe haul heavy stuff in the bed OR for R1T or R1S owners who haul/tow, HL is the recommended choice...which for the 22-inch wheels, really limits our non-all-terrain options. This is true, at least for my 22 inch wheels on my R1T.

With that said, the load index still applies.

https://www.tirerack.com/upgrade-garage/what-is-load-index?gclid=Cj0KCQjwt4a2BhD6ARIsALgH7DrJ_uRAiyjRzohvemID3x9UaDxVWRYKQAABc3kuW-uHm-wsG8-jf_UaAs7fEALw_wcB&ef_id=Cj0KCQjwt4a2BhD6ARIsALgH7DrJ_uRAiyjRzohvemID3x9UaDxVWRYKQAABc3kuW-uHm-wsG8-jf_UaAs7fEALw_wcB:G:s&s_kwcid=AL!3756!3!354820920365!e!!g!!tire load index&gclsrc=aw.ds&gad_source=1

So, there are two versions of this tire, one with a 115 load index, which is apprently the minimum recommended by Rivian Service for either an R1S or R1T. However, this tire is also available in the heavier 119 load index--which is the one @wicked2112 purchased on a different thread. In this case, the HL Pirelli Scorpion Zeros that came with my R1T from the factory have a load index rating of 2760 lbs per tire. Okay, so... the Michelin Defender LTX M/S2 275/50/R22 has the following load weights...
115 load index -- 2679 lbs (81 lbs less per tire than the stock Scorpions)
119 load index -- 2998 lbs (238 lbs MORE per tire than the stock Scorpions)

Yes, the 119s are heavier, but in terms of safety with hauling or towing, the 119 would be the choice...and a whole lot cheaper than the Pirellis...and with a mileage warranty, unlike the Pirellis.

NOTE: the 115 does have an H speed rating -- 130 mph, while the 119 version has an S rating -- 112 mph. So if you're racing top end, then...

ALSO NOTE: on many websites, the tire will be described as 119 / 116S in the same line. Can't say I've figured this out if someone can clarify this. It almost seems like they're listing both, but if you order, I guess you have to make sure you're getting the right one. (Unless it's a subset of the speed rating saying 116 mph, which I doubt.)

Finally, the 119 appears available at places like Tire Rack--however, with the weird dual listing of 119/116S. But, you can also find both versions at Costco--you just have to make sure to search by tire size. If you search by vehicle, the 119 version may not come up.

That's a deep dive into everything, and I hope that helps someone else figure out which tires are right for their needs. I'll be getting the 119 version through Costco (currently $397 each)--waiting for them to have a periodic discount on a 4-tire Michelin purchase. The 119s will have more load capacity, a long treadwear warranty (through Costco or Michelin), are is cheaper than the short-lived stock Pirellis. IFCOSTCO WILL INSTALL THEM...they might not because of Costco policy--they have a lower speed rating than the stock Pirellis. Ugh.

 

[mkg3]

Forgive me for not starting a new post--I'm pulling this from my post on a different, similar thread. Also forgive me if I'm wrong...but I'll address this to the R1T owners ONLY since we both use these threads and people sometime get confused.

22-inch options. Things to remember when choosing your tire. More than size, it depends on how you're using your vehicle. I'm going with...
22" Michelin DEFENDER LTX M/S2 LT275 /50 R22 119S E1 BSW

BUT, what about all the tire rating differences?

The standard (SL) VS XL vs HL. For the weight and use of the R1S, the XL (more weight/load handled vs standard), is acceptable. The standard is never recommended. As for the E, I believe that's the LOAD RANGE as opposed to the LOAD INDEX The range is an older measure of weight and durability (by ply rating) which is somewhat outdated, but an E rating is the equivalent of a "10 ply" sidewall and doesn't reflect weight capacity.

https://www.discounttire.com/learn/load-range-load-index

The load index is the newer rating that isn't based on plys and will tell you weight capacity. The weight is more important for the heavier EVs and especially the R1T and R1S due to weight, power, etc. However, for most R1S owners, I believe the XL version with a minimum 115 load index is acceptable, but the HL version is preferred. I think the reason for this is because most R1S owners aren't going to haul like a loaded bed in a pickup like an R1T. Still, if you're towing, the weight capacity/load index is still VERY important.

For those who either haul or tow, then the HL (high load, which can carry more weight at the same size as an XL) is absolutely recommended because of the extra weight you're adding to your vehicle's gross weight. For R1T owners who are going to maybe haul heavy stuff in the bed OR for R1T or R1S owners who haul/tow, HL is the recommended choice...which for the 22-inch wheels, really limits our non-all-terrain options. This is true, at least for my 22 inch wheels on my R1T.

With that said, the load index still applies.

https://www.tirerack.com/upgrade-garage/what-is-load-index?gclid=Cj0KCQjwt4a2BhD6ARIsALgH7DrJ_uRAiyjRzohvemID3x9UaDxVWRYKQAABc3kuW-uHm-wsG8-jf_UaAs7fEALw_wcB&ef_id=Cj0KCQjwt4a2BhD6ARIsALgH7DrJ_uRAiyjRzohvemID3x9UaDxVWRYKQAABc3kuW-uHm-wsG8-jf_UaAs7fEALw_wcB:G:s&s_kwcid=AL!3756!3!354820920365!e!!g!!tire load index&gclsrc=aw.ds&gad_source=1

So, there are two versions of this tire, one with a 115 load index, which is apprently the minimum recommended by Rivian Service for either an R1S or R1T. However, this tire is also available in the heavier 119 load index--which is the one @wicked2112 purchased on a different thread. In this case, the HL Pirelli Scorpion Zeros that came with my R1T from the factory have a load index rating of 2760 lbs per tire. Okay, so... the Michelin Defender LTX M/S2 275/50/R22 has the following load weights...
115 load index -- 2679 lbs (81 lbs less per tire than the stock Scorpions)
119 load index -- 2998 lbs (238 lbs MORE per tire than the stock Scorpions)

Yes, the 119s are heavier, but in terms of safety with hauling or towing, the 119 would be the choice...and a whole lot cheaper than the Pirellis...and with a mileage warranty, unlike the Pirellis.

NOTE: the 115 does have an H speed rating -- 130 mph, while the 119 version has an S rating -- 112 mph. So if you're racing top end, then...

ALSO NOTE: on many websites, the tire will be described as 119 / 116S in the same line. Can't say I've figured this out if someone can clarify this. It almost seems like they're listing both, but if you order, I guess you have to make sure you're getting the right one. (Unless it's a subset of the speed rating saying 116 mph, which I doubt.)

Finally, the 119 appears available at places like Tire Rack--however, with the weird dual listing of 119/116S. But, you can also find both versions at Costco--you just have to make sure to search by tire size. If you search by vehicle, the 119 version may not come up.

That's a deep dive into everything, and I hope that helps someone else figure out which tires are right for their needs. I'll be getting the 119 version through Costco (currently $397 each)--waiting for them to have a periodic discount on a 4-tire Michelin purchase. The 119s will have more load capacity, a long treadwear warranty (through Costco or Michelin), are is cheaper than the short-lived stock Pirellis. IFCOSTCO WILL INSTALL THEM...they might not because of Costco policy--they have a lower speed rating than the stock Pirellis. Ugh.

Just three things:

1) Rivian originally shipped R1 vehicles w/115 load rating tire, then changed it to 116 today. Unless you plan to exceed 10,716 lbs of total load, or concentrated load of more than 5,358 lbs on a single axle, 115 load index is more than adequate.

2) 119 load index tires weighs 80 lbs vs 39 lbs for 115. Will significantly impact the range as tire mass and moment of inertia is a range driver (think of figure skater with arms extended vs tucked in to the body as they spin - much faster spin with the same energy).

3) 115 load index tire is much lower cost than 119.

Over spec'ing the requirements is rarely a good thing...

 

[TampaR1T]

Just three things:

1) Rivian originally shipped R1 vehicles w/115 load rating tire, then changed it to 116 today. Unless you plan to exceed 10,716 lbs of total load, or concentrated load of more than 5,358 lbs on a single axle, 115 load index is more than adequate.

2) 119 load index tires weighs 80 lbs vs 39 lbs for 115. Will significantly impact the range as tire mass and moment of inertia is a range driver (think of figure skater with arms extended vs tucked in to the body as they spin - much faster spin with the same energy).

3) 115 load index tire is much lower cost than 119.

Over spec'ing the requirements is rarely a good thing...

That's great info and a great reminder!! Thank you!! Tough to decide. They originally shipped with 115, then changed. but now, only 116? Hmm, but as you said, how much are we really going to exceed the payload capacity? Granted, I guess if the bed is full and you're towing?? The weight will certainly be greater because of the tires. Granted, the total weight capacity of the 119s would be around 12000 lbs, minus the 8532 for the R1t = 3468 capacity, but the bed wouldn't hold that structurally anyway. So again, maybe it's only if full and towing. For like 50 miles before you run out of juice. Thanks @mkg3 !!!!

 

[TampaR1T]

Just three things:

1) Rivian originally shipped R1 vehicles w/115 load rating tire, then changed it to 116 today. Unless you plan to exceed 10,716 lbs of total load, or concentrated load of more than 5,358 lbs on a single axle, 115 load index is more than adequate.

2) 119 load index tires weighs 80 lbs vs 39 lbs for 115. Will significantly impact the range as tire mass and moment of inertia is a range driver (think of figure skater with arms extended vs tucked in to the body as they spin - much faster spin with the same energy).

3) 115 load index tire is much lower cost than 119.

Over spec'ing the requirements is rarely a good thing...

So with them changing to the 116 today, what would you get?? I'm tempted to go for the Defenders, but the 115 version through Costco for $305 each plus tax which includes installation, warranty, etc...
It's also interesting to see how they would handle warranty claims because the sticker on the driver door jamb does specifically state HL rating tires.

https://tires.costco.com/product?ItemNo=1764204&added=success

 

[mkg3]

So with them changing to the 116 today, what would you get?? I'm tempted to go for the Defenders, but the 115 version through Costco for $305 each plus tax which includes installation, warranty, etc...
It's also interesting to see how they would handle warranty claims because the sticker on the driver door jamb does specifically state HL rating tires.

https://tires.costco.com/product?ItemNo=1764204&added=success

I have 22" OE tires still. I will change it to Michelin (all of my vehicles ride on Michelin) and am hoping that they will bring out either the Pilot Sport AS or CrossClimate2 in 275/50/22 115H...

Since it's unlikely, I probably will settle for the Defender LTX M/S2 115H version from Costco. I am not looking for 70k mile tires. I typically have to replace the tires in 30K~35K miles so I'm good with those kind of numbers.

I only buy tires from Costco because it's so simple and have nation wide stores. I had a flat during a vacation few years ago and took it to the local Costco there and they took care of it immediately.

As a side note, one can always come up with an extreme case that exceeds the 115 load index. The question is will you ever be in the extreme case or is it "just in case" scenario???

 

[madhat]

I have 22" OE tires still. I will change it to Michelin (all of my vehicles ride on Michelin) and am hoping that they will bring out either the Pilot Sport AS or CrossClimate2 in 275/50/22 115H...

Since it's unlikely, I probably will settle for the Defender LTX M/S2 115H version from Costco. I am not looking for 70k mile tires. I typically have to replace the tires in 30K~35K miles so I'm good with those kind of numbers.

I only buy tires from Costco because it's so simple and have nation wide stores. I had a flat during a vacation few years ago and took it to the local Costco there and they took care of it immediately.

As a side note, one can always come up with an extreme case that exceeds the 115 load index. The question is will you ever be in the extreme case or is it "just in case" scenario???

One more thing to remember is that although they have nation wide reach, you’re relying on a lower caliber installer (generally) going with chains like Costco and DT. I installed the 115 Defenders on my new 22” atomic wheels, and I’m glad I did because they took more care than DT would have. My wife’s CX5 ended up with a chuck off paint missing off a wheel last time we let DT touch it. I’d rather pay a bit more for an unlikely emergency repair than having “free” service in that unlikely event at the sacrifice of far more likely damage during voluntary tire work.

 

[mkg3]

One more thing to remember is that although they have nation wide reach, you’re relying on a lower caliber installer (generally)...

It hard to generalize this point. It all depends on the tech working on the tires.

Because Costco installs so many more tires than just about anyone, I can believe that the need for the rate of tire change could impact the quality.

That said, it has never been my experience in over 20 yrs of buying tires on various vehicles we've owned at our local Costco. There has never been any wheel damage, always spot on balance (we drive 80~85mph on freeways most of the time, if moving) without any vibration, and have had custom wheels at times.

Maybe I'm lucky or you're particular experience is unlucky?

 

[Whale Blubber]

Be interested in whether Costco is willing to install the 115s. I just got back from Discount Tire where we spent about an hour trying to sort through various 22" tire weights and options. Bottom line, DT says I need to replace with HL / 116 version of the Defenders (vs. XL / 115), but that will add about 10-12 pounds of rotating weight on each corner (and they're more expensive). I would much rather get the 115s if I can find a dealer willing to install them. I don't tow anything anyway, so the extra load rating is wasted on me -- both in terms of my expected efficiency and the extra cost.

 

[Bruni13]

The Continentals I bought are stock size so zero rubbing at any height.

Would you mind sharing if you've had any impact on range with the Continental tires? In Texas also and now that its been about six months wondering what you think of the tire choice?

 

[Supratachophobia]

One more thing to remember is that although they have nation wide reach, you’re relying on a lower caliber installer (generally) going with chains like Costco and DT. I installed the 115 Defenders on my new 22” atomic wheels, and I’m glad I did because they took more care than DT would have. My wife’s CX5 ended up with a chuck off paint missing off a wheel last time we let DT touch it. I’d rather pay a bit more for an unlikely emergency repair than having “free” service in that unlikely event at the sacrifice of far more likely damage during voluntary tire work.

Honestly, I've heard the installer quality issue from every single angle. I totally think it's the luck of the draw and a lot less about what name is on the billboard.

The chain place you go could easily give you the new guy. Or the hourly rate at the mom and pop might have had a freeze put on it.

 

[electruck]

Would you mind sharing if you've had any impact on range with the Continental tires? In Texas also and now that its been about six months wondering what you think of the tire choice?

As I shared in another thread yesterday, I've been super happy with the Terrain Contact HTs over the last 6k miles. Efficiency is at least as good as the OE Pirelli, quieter, better ride, great traction.

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