Apple CarPlay and Android for R1T / R1S?

[Obioban]

CarPlay does not preclude Rivian from creating their own tightly-integrated platform. How many times do we have to remind you of this? It's not an either/or.

And there is no debate about it. Rivian will not be able to compete with the breadth of offerings on a closed, limited reach system. Maybe you don't care about that, but many of us do.

100% this.

If Rivian creates a more compelling experience than carplay, people will choose to use it. Competition (from CarPlay) should make Rivian's system better-- rarely does anything good come from a monopoly (e.g. Rivian's monopoly on the car's interface). There's a reason all car interfaces are historically garbage.

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[Obioban]

Again, correct insight.

To say nothing of the inability for in-app user interface tracking, bugs, issues, etc. It makes it significantly more complex w/ no upside for Rivian. They want to start a new paradigm not follow an old one because people got used to it. That is in fact how companies fail.

Folks outside of software are not going to see that. You lose the customer in CarPlay and as for data you are at Apple's and 4th party Apps mercy.

It just does not make sense for Rivian in the short term. Maybe they add it, but I can see why they don't in giant red flashing letters in the short term.

This convo has jumped the shark. I hope Rivian is successful differentiating themselves HW, SW, and branding. Going to be a long journey - rooting from them execute and improve.

I'm not sure Dbeglor's post that you're quoting is, as I don't see it anywhere in this thread.

But, the upside would be selling more trucks.... which I'd like to think is their primary business model. This won't apply initially, as they work their way through the backlog of preorders and no real competition exists, but at some point they will need to compete for sales, and people do care about this.

As a customer, Apple having my data instead of Rivian is a huge perk. Apple is far more responsible with user data than any other significant company out there.

 

[Dbeglor]

100% this.

If Rivian creates a more compelling experience than carplay, people will choose to use it.

Offering CP/AA does hinder their ability to produce the best native system they can. Otherwise, simple logic would dictate they would be offering it if it was all gain and no downside. It's not like they woke up and found out from customers that this thing called CP/AA existed and they just flat out didn't realize it. They've assessed the landscape and made a strategic decision.

They are choosing to have what some will deem to be an inferior product in the short term in order to hopefully have a superior product in the long term. They have several years to develop their own system to make people care less about CP/AA, so we should just shelve this whole debate until then.

 

[Obioban]

Option A: build a hunk of metal that delivers the same experience as all our competitors. Differentiate ourselves by paying a ton for marketing and branding to trick people into thinking it's different.
Option B: set ourselves apart by creating something unique and having a direct connection to our customers user experience while most competitors make a commodity product.

You know products can be differentiated by things other than branding and software, no?

The rivian is HUGELY differentiated. 4 motors, no differentials, gear tunnel, electric bed cover, etc.

arguably at this point people like Rivian in spite of their infotainment, because of their other differentiation. I haven’t seen anyone that thought their system is particularly good.

 

[astonius]

Rivian can still gather ADAS and GPS information while CP/AA is in use. That's the only valuable data, and CP/AA use does not prevent or hinder that gathering.

 

[Obioban]

Offering CP/AA does hinder their ability to produce the best native system they can. Otherwise, simple logic would dictate they would be offering it if it was all gain and no downside. It's not like they woke up and found out from customers that this thing called CP/AA existed and they just flat out didn't realize it. They've assessed the landscape and made a strategic decision.

They are choosing to have what some will deem to be an inferior product in the short term in order to hopefully have a superior product in the long term. They have several years to develop their own system to make people care less about CP/AA, so we should just shelve this whole debate until then.

Lol. I wouldn't expect this debate to go anywhere. Imagine 10 years from now, when the first gen Rivian computers are old and SLOW, the on board modems can no longer connect to the cellular networks of the day, and everyone's phones have continued to get faster and more powerful year after year after year. You think they're going to want this less?

 

[Dbeglor]

But, the upside would be selling more trucks.... which I'd like to think is their primary business model. This won't apply initially, as they work their way through the backlog of preorders and no real competition exists, but at some point they will need to compete for sales, and people do care about this.

As a customer, Apple having my data instead of Rivian is a huge perk. Apple is far more responsible with user data than any other significant company out there.

They don't need to sell more trucks for a couple years, so give it two years and then evaluate where they are vs. what CP/AA would offer.

I disagree, I'd rather the counterparty to my relationship (in this case Rivian) to have the data that applies to the environment in which it was created so that it can be used to improve the experience. Apple can't do anything with it, so at best they keep it private but nothing is gained.

Saying you'd rather have Apple have your vehicle data because you trust them is like saying you'd rather tell your best friend about what you like in bed vs your partner because you've known them longer. It's none of their business, so why does it matter if they are trustworthy?

 

[Dbeglor]

Lol. I wouldn't expect this debate to go anywhere. Imagine 10 years from now, when the first gen Rivian computers are old and SLOW, the on board modems can no longer connect to the cellular networks of the day, and everyone's phones have continued to get faster and more powerful year after year after year. You think they're going to want this less?

Why would you update your phone hardware but not your vehicle hardware if it's so important? Tesla has replaced/upgraded hardware on old vehicles. If they don't, sell it to someone else and get the newest version, just like we've always done. The Tesla/Rivian model encourages keeping vehicles in the fleet on the roads longer. The legacy model wants you to scrap it and buy a new one because that is their only way to make a profit. The Ford/GM hardware will age the same as the Rivian/Tesla, and CP/AA relies on it all the same.

 

[Obioban]

Why would you update your phone hardware but not your vehicle hardware if it's so important? Tesla has replaced/upgraded hardware on old vehicles. If they don't, sell it to someone else and get the newest version, just like we've always done. The Tesla/Rivian model encourages keeping vehicles in the fleet on the roads longer. The legacy model wants you to scrap it and buy a new one because that is their only way to make a profit. The Ford/GM hardware will age the same as the Rivian/Tesla, and CP/AA relies on it all the same.

So, best case, I can buy new hardware, in order to pay a subscription fee, for an inferior version of services not of my choosing? Compelling. ,

Even that is optimistic-- there's no option to upgrade the cellular module in my e46 or i3 to anything that can talk to the cellular networks online today. The i3 is a 4 year old model. Happily, carplay still works fine in it, so I don't care at all.

CP/AA outsources the computation and internet connection to the phone. In 10 years, it'll still be current day phone performance, with current day internet speeds.... with multiple iterative speed boosts along the way.

 

[GaryL]

This is quit the discussion but mostly irrelevant. My I remind you of 4 word, Jeff Bezos owns 20%. There is no way on Gods green earth Bezos is going to allow CarPlay or Android in a Rivian Period. And as far as a home-brew Rivian solution ever being "better" not going to happen either. In fact I would be disappointed if they spent there engineering talent on that area. They have a few vehicle areas to catch up on first. So it's Pretty much what you see today, with a few bug fixes and a few new features added painfully slowly , is what you will get. Sorry.

 

[Tim-in-CA]

This thread has gotten completely out of hand!! Calgon, take me away!

 

[kylealden]

We could all stand to take the temperature down a bit.

 

[wicked2112]

You clearly have the right to make that choice, and I hope it all works out for you. That said, don't hold your breath. Rivian has repeatedly said that they will not support CarPlay or Android Auto.

Just like Tesla! Someone from Tesla told me - IF YOU WANT CP/AAA, HAVE APPLE OR GOGGLE BUILD YOU A CAR. If people feel this is a non-starter, one less person in line to worry about. Good Luck!

 

[Obioban]

Just like Tesla! Someone from Tesla told me - IF YOU WANT CP/AAA, HAVE APPLE OR GOGGLE BUILD YOU A CAR. If people feel this is a non-starter, one less person in line to worry about. Good Luck!

Apple did hire Porsche’s former head of chassis development, which makes me optimistic for their car.

 

[Zoidz]

This is quit the discussion but mostly irrelevant. My I remind you of 4 word, Jeff Bezos owns 20%. There is no way on Gods green earth Bezos is going to allow CarPlay or Android in a Rivian Period. And as far as a home-brew Rivian solution ever being "better" not going to happen either. In fact I would be disappointed if they spent there engineering talent on that area. They have a few vehicle areas to catch up on first. So it's Pretty much what you see today, with a few bug fixes and a few new features added painfully slowly , is what you will get. Sorry.

I had mostly ignored this thread until now, and just read the last 60 or so posts. As I was reading the heated debate, I came to the same conclusion about 3/4 of the way through, and then I read this post. GaryL is right. You all have overlooked the most obvious answer. Rivian already has Alexa integration well underway, and Amazon owns 20% of Rivian. It's likely there is a long term vision regarding the Infotainment/ADAS system, heavily influenced or even controlled by where Amazon wants to be in the automotive market 10 years down the road. AA/CP isn't an integrated at the full vehicle system level, it's an app running in the infotainment system. If/as long as Rivian and Amazon have a vision of *total integration*, my bet is that it's highly unlikely to see AA/CP any time soon, if ever.

Edit: "Alexa, drive me to Las Vegas on a scenic route, play country music, point out the historic places. Stop at any restaurant that has Shrimp and Grits on the menu."

AA/CP can't do that.

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