Which ADAS is Really Driving? It’s Mobileye!

[Donald Stanfield]

Exactly, I see what you're asking, and my responses are too complex and nuanced for you. I get it. English is a difficult language. You are right, I am using your language in an attempt to communicate and it's funny that still doesn't land.



Probably not.

Back to the actual topic; in shopping cars I'm trying to figure out whether there's a believable, concrete promise of Gen 2 actually getting useful ADAS. Because it seems like buying a gen 1, saving money, and buying a Comma 3X makes more sense.

You are using my language because you're struggling to come up with an original thought. Don't give yourself credit you don't deserve. With smooth-brained responses like bUT ADAS iZ bEtTER thAn a DrUnK oR sOmEoNe SLeEpiNG, we are never going to see eye to eye.

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[mpshizzle]

Rivain just posted a video on their youtube channel Discussion thread here. The discussion they were having really makes me question how much mobile eye really is involved with Gen 2... Very intersting

 

[mpshizzle]

A very interesting quote from James Philbin on the Rivian website

"Later this year, we plan to expand our hands-off/eyes-on capabilities to more highways and to select surface roads. Next year, a hands-off/eyes-off feature is planned for controlled conditions with our current Gen 2 vehicles."

 

[RoRoTheRivian]

Just resurrecting this thread in light of 2025.18.30. It looks like OP is still spot on. No new driver assistance features but the visualization of other cars is much improved. However, I notice that the lane markers are still glitchy and tends to jump around. The other vehicles stay put and movement is very smooth and almost real time. I guess we are still waiting for when they fully transition to the new autonomy stack.

 

[mpshizzle]

Just resurrecting this thread in light of 2025.18.30. It looks like OP is still spot on. No new driver assistance features but the visualization of other cars is much improved. However, I notice that the lane markers are still glitchy and tends to jump around. The other vehicles stay put and movement is very smooth and almost real time. I guess we are still waiting for when they fully transition to the new autonomy stack.

Funny you should bring this back to the top. I've been thinking about this as well. They've definitely made some new strides with perception. I plan on running the same tests again to see if it's still just usiing that one camera for the autonomy functions.

Side note here - the ENTIRE premise of "mobile is driving" hinged on whether that one camera that's doing all the heavy lifting ACTUALLY is a mobile eye unit or not. Which we still technically haven't proven. I've been starting to question if it ACTUALLY is mobile eye, or if it really has been the in house system all along, but just relying entirely on one camera because the software is sitll in its infancy.

What I can say, is that starting with 2025.06 or 2025.10 (I don't recall which) the visualization changed ever so slightly, and now it seems that the decision making lines up much more consistently with the visuals shown on screen. For example if phatom braking occurs I can see in the visual that it happens right when a vehicle crosses over the lane line in the visualization. So IF there was a mobile eye component, maybe that's when it switched over? No real answers, but definitely food for though. What I do know is I have more testing to do

 

[risingphoenix]

What is also interesting is Rivian's "adoption" of cooperative ADAS ala OpenPilot for Gen 2 vehicles. The answer to JM's question regarding the debate to buy a Gen 2 or buy a Gen 1 and install a comma 3x is becoming more clear (at least from a financial perspective). With the remarkable advancements in the Gen 1 Rivian specific integration of SunnyPilot/comma 3x, it is nice for Gen 1 owners to have an option that at least partially satisfies the broken promises Rivian made and FOR NOW is better than ADAS on a Gen 2.

I do think Tesla/FSD has done a disservice to the public perception of ADAS as a "replacement" for human driving. In actuality, ASSISTANCE is the key and is what makes ADAS + human MUCH safer than human alone. Unfortunately, many people (and some on this thread) have perseverated on either/or (is human or ADAS safer) when they should be focused on both being used cooperatively.

 

[mpshizzle]

What is also interesting is Rivian's "adoption" of cooperative ADAS ala OpenPilot for Gen 2 vehicles.

IMHO this made me kind of sad. A cool feature, FOR SURE. And it sounds like it's well implemented too. My Mustang with Ford Blue Cruise had this as well.

BUT - it feels like a bit of a cop out. If you're using this feature, that means that the system is doing something wrong and you have to intervene. It should just DO the right thing. In fact - the ability to move over for big vehicles like semis has already been advertised as an upcoming feature. So the fact that they are introducing this feels like a bit of a cop out to cover for the fact that they're behind where they'd like to be. I could be wrong, but my personal take

 

[risingphoenix]

IMHO this made me kind of sad. A cool feature, FOR SURE. And it sounds like it's well implemented too. My Mustang with Ford Blue Cruise had this as well.

BUT - it feels like a bit of a cop out. If you're using this feature, that means that the system is doing something wrong and you have to intervene. It should just DO the right thing. In fact - the ability to move over for big vehicles like semis has already been advertised as an upcoming feature. So the fact that they are introducing this feels like a bit of a cop out to cover for the fact that they're behind where they'd like to be. I could be wrong, but my personal take

Have you used OpenPilot? Because nobody says this that has experience with it. Also, you are falling into the error of arguing that ADAS should REPLACE or be BETTER than a human, which is IMO wrong.

 

[mpshizzle]

Have you used OpenPilot? Because nobody says this that has experience with it. Also, you are falling into the error of arguing that ADAS should REPLACE or be BETTER than a human, which is IMO wrong.

I have used open pilot. And it IS better than Gen 2 in almost every way (at least right now). And the collaborative steering is great! It tends to make mistakes far less often than Gen 2. With the latest DTR model it rarely requires intervention on highway. But when it does require correction, the collaborative steering is a really graceful way to do it.

On my Gen 2 Rivian, I'd much rather have it not NEED intervention to begin with

One thing to note here is how different companies are interpreting "ADAS"

Comma AI very much is taking that at face value. It is an assistant. Nothing more.

Tesla and Rivian have shown that they are targeting far more than an assistance. Tesla uses the word "robo taxi", Rivian uses the word "Autonomy", both of which suggest a vehicle system that drives itself, rather than a system that assists a human driver. Rivian has even openly talked about fully autonomous functionality, such as "hands off, eyes off" coming next year. James Philbin has also mentioned possibly L4 functionality like vehicles parking themselves after dropping you off at the airport terminal. Even going so far as to say R1 Gen 2 hardware is capable of that level of autonomy. So all of this suggests that when they say "ADAS" it's more of a legal/social thing, than a literal adherence to "driver assistance".

All that said. Whether they CAN achieve that level of Autonomy or SHOULD even be targeting that is a different discussion for a different thread. There are PLENTY of threads already discussing the virtues or vices of driver replacement systems.

My only point is that while collaborative steering is a very cool, great feature for driver assistance, it feels like a crutch while they're on their way to their goal of autonomy

 

[godfodder0901]

With the latest DTR model it rarely requires intervention on highway.

What model is this?

 

[mpshizzle]

What model is this?

Down to Ride

 

[pamalabama]

What is also interesting is Rivian's "adoption" of cooperative ADAS ala OpenPilot for Gen 2 vehicles. The answer to JM's question regarding the debate to buy a Gen 2 or buy a Gen 1 and install a comma 3x is becoming more clear (at least from a financial perspective). With the remarkable advancements in the Gen 1 Rivian specific integration of SunnyPilot/comma 3x, it is nice for Gen 1 owners to have an option that at least partially satisfies the broken promises Rivian made and FOR NOW is better than ADAS on a Gen 2.

I do think Tesla/FSD has done a disservice to the public perception of ADAS as a "replacement" for human driving. In actuality, ASSISTANCE is the key and is what makes ADAS + human MUCH safer than human alone. Unfortunately, many people (and some on this thread) have perseverated on either/or (is human or ADAS safer) when they should be focused on both being used cooperatively.

Cooperative in FSD would not work. Because FSD plans a maneuver and it knows best. You cant interfere with what the system wants to do.

Cooperative is a copout to make up for poor performance and weak steering torque

 

[risingphoenix]

Cooperative in FSD would not work. Because FSD plans a maneuver and it knows best. You cant interfere with what the system wants to do.

Cooperative is a copout to make up for poor performance and weak steering torque

Lololol. I'll repeat "Unfortunately, many people (and some on this thread) have perseverated on either/or (is human or ADAS safer) when they should be focused on both being used cooperatively." Openpilot is available for over 250 cars bra. Just because your tires suck doesn't mean OP is at fault.

 

[pamalabama]

Lololol. I'll repeat "Unfortunately, many people (and some on this thread) have perseverated on either/or (is human or ADAS safer) when they should be focused on both being used cooperatively." Openpilot is available for over 250 cars bra. Just because your tires suck doesn't mean OP is at fault.

And all openpilot does is lane centering

It is not performing accident avoidance. It is not dodging potholes. It is not making unprotected turns

Torque has nothing to do with tires. Rivian steering column seems to have limits on turning the steering wheel more than 90 degrees and has limits on the speed the wheel can be turned. This would not allow some curves to be taken

 

[godfodder0901]

And all openpilot does is lane centering

Watch the Taco Bell run and tell me that again...

It is not performing accident avoidance. It is not dodging potholes. It is not making unprotected turns

True, but it is only a level 2 system.

Torque has nothing to do with tires. Rivian steering column seems to have limits on turning the steering wheel more than 90 degrees and has limits on the speed the wheel can be turned. This would not allow some curves to be taken

The torque limit is a self-imposed safety limit by OpenPilot which could be changed. The 90 degree limit that has been encountered in other vehicles and may be able to be bypassed in the future.

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