Why Gen 1 did not receive "tank turn" - answers from Rivian

[Eeyore]

Blah blah blah, can get at least get launch control??

This is all I want. Don't want "self driving", kick turn or RAD tuner thing.

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[Audiotek]

I would like an OTA update that reduces so many Rivians being T-boned, Totalled or Rear-ended.

If Tank Turn, Launch control or RAD is the fix Rivian can do a full send.

 

[mpshizzle]

All this is just marketing speak for we didn't want to spend the effort to retrofit and diminish the specialness of the new quad. Same with RAD and the new conserve mode none of it really seems technically unfeasible with Gen1 just that they probably do not want to spend effort to retrofit or just might do so in the future but don't want to say anything now to protect the new quad launch.

It's worth noting the difference between "Tank Turn" and "Kick Turn". Kick Turn is available in motion, while Tank Turn is just spinning in place. I can absolutely see the need for more precise motor control to pull that off vs Tank Turn. That said, G1 Quad has been shown to be capable of a simple, in place tank turn... at least enough to be shown in that one demo video. I suspect that the REAL reason they didn't do that was because of the weak half shafts. They already are problematic, and adding tank turn (which is HIGHLY stressful to driveline components) would likely cause severe damage or even breakage. Just my hunch anyway.

RAD modes are 100% software and can TOTALLY be put on any R1. One media outlet even mentioned that to the engineers and they confirmed that's possible (It may have been Out of Spec but I honestly don't remember). I'm hoping that after keeping that as a quad exclusive for a while, they just bring it to other builds too.

The new conserve mode, on the other hand is 100% not possible on OG quad. It uses a completely different clutch mechanism from every other R1 motor config. Origin Quad is just not capable of the precise torque and speed control required to engage and disengage automatically. As an owner of a dual motor I was quite alarmed the first time I was in a quad and heard the clunk of the clutch. I thought something had broken. The conserve tire wear issue has been a massive headache for Rivian, so I'm sure if there was a reasonable way to implement the new conserve, they would have

 

[ElGuano]

The new conserve mode, on the other hand is 100% not possible on OG quad. It uses a completely different clutch mechanism from every other R1 motor config. Origin Quad is just not capable of the precise torque and speed control required to engage and disengage automatically. As an owner of a dual motor I was quite alarmed the first time I was in a quad and heard the clunk of the clutch. I thought something had broken. The conserve tire wear issue has been a massive headache for Rivian, so I'm sure if there was a reasonable way to implement the new conserve, they would have

NACS port? Minor. Kick turn? Interesting but kind of party-tricky for most people. RAD mode? Yeah I can see that being software.

New conserve and motor/drive engagement mechanism? I can see this as being the real reason why the new quad took so long in development.

 

[iansriv]

This is my first EV (G1 R1S) and I'm very grateful that I get updated improvements. Like a lot of us, all I've ever known are the ICE cars that you get what you see at the time of purchase and that is it. It's like Xmas morning for me every time we get an update. Tank turn or whatever G2 or G10 gets is ok with me. Cheers.

 

[CharonPDX]

You already have it. Minus the automatic front lowering and the on-screen prompts.

It is funny that at least one outlet pointed out that a Gen 2 Quad in Sport mode, but *NOT* using Launch Control is actually *SLOWER* 0-60 than a Gen 1 Quad that doesn't have Launch Control at all.

 

[madhat]

You already have it. Minus the automatic front lowering and the on-screen prompts.

Where's the 130mph? That's a pretty major part of Rivian launch control .

 

[TomInPDX]

I have a gen 1, quad motor R1S. Early edition VIN#15XXX. I find it a bit odd that Rivian was advertising tank turns as a cool feature long before I received mine and frankly, before you even saw Rivians on the road. Those were gen Bosch motors in those videos so…

 

[VSG]

I have a gen 1, quad motor R1S. Early edition VIN#15XXX. I find it a bit odd that Rivian was advertising tank turns as a cool feature long before I received mine and frankly, before you even saw Rivians on the road. Those were gen Bosch motors in those videos so…

And they couldn't get it to work on the Bosch motors back then, which is why the feature disappeared even before the first customer shipments. So ...

Rivian announced that it would not be in the production vehicles, before the first vehicles shipped.

If you want to know why, then simply take a look at that first video from December 2019. The turning vehicle slips around like a pat of butter on a hot griddle. When one or more of the wheels hits a spot where it momentarily loses traction, the other wheels, driven by super powerful engines, can't detect and compensate for that quick enough to keep the spin centered. Add in tilted ground, or mixed surfaces, and you get a recipe for disaster.

The old tank turn was more like "donut mode". And you know that everyone would be going out and trying it first day they got it. And since most Rivians aren't used off-road, this would be done in parking lots etc. and thousands of tires would lose their lives on that fateful day.

 

[jdarmstrong]

Kick turn is a cool trick and all but I think Kyle Conner said it best. Upgrade the braking system! I think it’s more important that I drivers have confidence their Quad motor has enough stopping power than wether or not it can kick turn.

 

[MountainBikeDude]

The way I see it, I don't want the additional complexity. Plus, you can see in forums that most people don't even know how to use audio EQ. And, they got our money already. The development cost required of gen 1, if they were to offer it as part of a OTA update, doesn't seem like how one would operate a [profitable] business. And then there's the aforementioned technical limitation: lack of control over the Bosch motors. Plus, if gen 1 owners had a path to all these upgrades, there'd be no motivation to upgrade to newer. No up-sell.

My hot take on the RAD tuner, offer it to Tri/Gen 1 Quad owners as a $20.00 update. I don't think it's an unreasonable fee, and really it's something say 30‰ of Gen 1 owners would be interested in toying with. Why not give them what they want, and get a bit of additional revenue from it.

 

[CO-rayman]

+1. Lowering the car and waiting for it to get it into "cheetah stance" is useless. Quite honestly, even tapping to get to the drive mode screen, swiping right to get to the mode selector, and selecting "Sport Mode" is already a couple of steps too many to bother with at a stop light. Especially when you take into account the time you need to establish eye contact with the other driver, point at them, and turn the point into a thumbs down, as is the courtesy.

+1 here too. Have had launch control on several vehicles and used them may be 2-3 times. The easiest one is the Porsche 911, foot on brake, foot on gas, wait for light, and let go of the brakes. As easy as that is, I have found a rolling start is much more satisfying and quicker, even if you have to jump the line

 

[Eric9610]

Rivian showed this feature on demo G1 models and the excuse at launch of G1 was they are afraid of trails getting destroyed. They made no mention of functional capabilities and where actually showing the feature of in demo truck for a long time. This is just another item in a long list of promised features on the G1 that never showed up.

Don't get me wrong, I love my G1 but having the promised features would have made it even better.

 

[JRock]

My jerk of a neighbor is VERY appreciative that I don’t have tank turn.
But seriously, having a feature like that leads to nothing good. And inevitability, folks would be doing this on dry pavement, causing what I can only imagine would be serious damage to the vehicle. Another case of, just because you can, doesn’t mean you should.

 

[electric-offroad]

It would be cool to get some kind of trail turn for Gen 1, like on the Bronco where it just drags the inside rear wheel. Kick turn seems kind of like a gimmick for rally driving and too wild to actually use on a narrow trail

That's a software cutting break, which should be possible… It's also a good way to soft "lock" the differential if you only have a dual-motor setup: applying the brake to the wheel that's spinning will allow power to go to the other wheel. Jeep calls this Brake Lock Differentials

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