Anyone else completely disappointed that MaxPack battery not available until 2023?

[koersontap]

What I'm most surprised by is the amount of people who seemed shocked that Max Pack reservations are "only" 20%. I know there's a vocal minority that clamour how "range is king", or that range is the first, second, and third most important things in an EV.

I think that's just the voices of those who don't really trust that the technology will develop. Or that charging infrastructure will get better.

At the end of the day, I'm surprised that 20% of people would spend an extra $10 grand on the Max Pack for extra range they *may* want once or twice a year. But to each their own.

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[Attesan997]

also Surprised only 20%. Maybe trade in the Large in 4-5 years if they have a 500 Maxpack. I also don’t need the extra range locally, but wanted it for road trips.

This makes the most sense to me. I’ll keep this for a while but certainly not forever. At some point it will still be worth a decent amount and I can trade it in for the updates and improvements. When we start getting into 500 miles of range, faster charging, or other features that will be worth it for me.

 

[kizamybute']

How many really "need" 400 miles of range? 300 miles is a long way. Longer than my bladder can go. EV's still aren't the most practical for long distance travel. If you're someone that travels over 1,000 miles on a regular basis, EV's probably aren't the best option, yet. However, for daily driving needs, 300 miles is way more than most people will ever need. Thus, if you're someone who only travels over 300 miles a couple of times of year, then the inconvenience of having to stop longer to charge over just filling with gas is worth the tradeoff of what you benefit every other day.

Likewise, more range would be better for towing, but again, if you're someone that tows over 500 miles on a very regular basis, again, EV's are still not the most practical for that application. Even the 400 mile battery is likely going to struggle to get 200 miles while towing anything over 5,000 lbs. So in that respect, its only about a 50 mile difference when compared with the Large Pack. I can't imagine too many purchasing and EV truck to use primarily for towing long distances on a daily basis.

I'm one that always wants more range, just because. But honestly, I never have a real need for it. I have the long range Model S. Previously had a 2013 Model S that only had 190 miles in real world highway speeds range. The newer one is rated for 400 miles, but is closer to 270 miles at "keep up with the flow" highway speeds. I find that I still stop at the same places I did with the prior Model S. The only difference being, I save a few minutes on the charge time with the newer car. But, in either case, the time is in the 30 minute range, which is far longer than a 3-4 minute stop for gas. So, adding 5-10 minutes really doesn't make much difference.

It's more psychological than it is practical. Not saying its going to be true for EVERYONE, but for MOST people, a 300 mile range vehicle will serve you just as well as a 400 Mile Range battery. I too originally ordered the 400 mile pack, just because. Then realized it likely would delay delivery by at least a year and changed my configuration a few months ago. If I'm going to drive from California to New York, I wouldn't take either one. Would rent a gas car. I'll do trips that require no more than 1 stop, maybe 2 on the rare occasions. Otherwise, the added time to charge for longer distance travel is just too much of a sacrifice (for me). For the 1 stop trips, happy to sacrifice the time for the year long benefits of EV use. So, point being, for a large majority of you, you won't even notice the difference between having 300 miles or 400 miles. Plug it in each night at home and you have more than enough for daily needs either way. The 300 mile battery is lighter and more efficient than toting around a bunch of extra weight for the 400 mile battery you're never using. Thus, in addition to the $10,000 you save up front, you'll also save with each charge as your wh/mi will be notably higher with the smaller battery.

If that helps anyway. Speaking from experience with EV's over the past 9+ years.

 

[crashmtb]

How many really "need" 400 miles of range? 300 miles is a long way. Longer than my bladder can go. EV's still aren't the most practical for long distance travel. If you're someone that travels over 1,000 miles on a regular basis, EV's probably aren't the best option, yet. However, for daily driving needs, 300 miles is way more than most people will ever need. Thus, if you're someone who only travels over 300 miles a couple of times of year, then the inconvenience of having to stop longer to charge over just filling with gas is worth the tradeoff of what you benefit every other day.

Likewise, more range would be better for towing, but again, if you're someone that tows over 500 miles on a very regular basis, again, EV's are still not the most practical for that application. Even the 400 mile battery is likely going to struggle to get 200 miles while towing anything over 5,000 lbs. So in that respect, its only about a 50 mile difference when compared with the Large Pack. I can't imagine too many purchasing and EV truck to use primarily for towing long distances on a daily basis.

I'm one that always wants more range, just because. But honestly, I never have a real need for it. I have the long range Model S. Previously had a 2013 Model S that only had 190 miles in real world highway speeds range. The newer one is rated for 400 miles, but is closer to 270 miles at "keep up with the flow" highway speeds. I find that I still stop at the same places I did with the prior Model S. The only difference being, I save a few minutes on the charge time with the newer car. But, in either case, the time is in the 30 minute range, which is far longer than a 3-4 minute stop for gas. So, adding 5-10 minutes really doesn't make much difference.

It's more psychological than it is practical. Not saying its going to be true for EVERYONE, but for MOST people, a 300 mile range vehicle will serve you just as well as a 400 Mile Range battery. I too originally ordered the 400 mile pack, just because. Then realized it likely would delay delivery by at least a year and changed my configuration a few months ago. If I'm going to drive from California to New York, I wouldn't take either one. Would rent a gas car. I'll do trips that require no more than 1 stop, maybe 2 on the rare occasions. Otherwise, the added time to charge for longer distance travel is just too much of a sacrifice (for me). For the 1 stop trips, happy to sacrifice the time for the year long benefits of EV use. So, point being, for a large majority of you, you won't even notice the difference between having 300 miles or 400 miles. Plug it in each night at home and you have more than enough for daily needs either way. The 300 mile battery is lighter and more efficient than toting around a bunch of extra weight for the 400 mile battery you're never using. Thus, in addition to the $10,000 you save up front, you'll also save with each charge as your wh/mi will be notably higher with the smaller battery.

If that helps anyway. Speaking from experience with EV's over the past 9+ years.

400 miles of range shrinks real fast when it’s -30, and some more range is knocked off by all-terrain or winter tires.

I live in a place with extreme weather and big distances. I’d option a bigger gas tank on every car I’ve ever had if I could’ve.

 

[cmiller]

I think 300 would be good for me, but the reality is that it's not actually 300 mile range. Take into effect weather, driving characteristics, and the all terrain tires I want it won't be 300 miles for me.

 

[OverZealous]

I was and am extremely disappointed. Being in Kentucky, we're already pretty much back-of-the-pack as it is. Even so, I was ready to support Rivian—I've had a Tesla Model S since 2015, and dealt with the growing pains with them. I've been in the process of adding a second wall connector over the break so I can charge both vehicles easily.

My biggest frustration is the uncertainty this brings.

1. There's no guarantee that "2nd half of 2023" (what I got) means we'll see the Max Pack then. It's way too vague for them to feel confident in it. So now I wonder if I'm waiting 2 years or 3 years or more for the vehicle.
2. Right now, it looks like I can get the $7500 tax credit on the vehicle. Since the updated plan doesn't appear to be going to pass this year, that's something I'd rather not give up, since the truck will most likely be above the price limit if it does later.
3. There's no guarantee on pricing. This is true in general, but especially true if we have to wait for another year. I think the odds they'll keep pricing the same is slim at best.
4. I've lost out on certain colors or features in the past by waiting. I really wanted a green Model S, but they dropped that (and the dark blue that was my 2nd choice) by the time I could afford on. Now I want a compass yellow R1T, and I don't know if I can trust they'll still offer that color by the time I get to order my truck. (Heck, they don't seem to have shipped one yet.)

So what do I do? People keep talking about spending $10k for 100miles of range, but in my opinion, the choice is between spending $80k on a vehicle that isn't exactly what you want, or $90k on a vehicle that is. In many ways, if you know you need the max pack, then buying the large pack is effectively throwing away $80k, not saving $10k.

I've owned an EV that only gets 260-270 miles of range for 6 years. A large-pack R1T with the 20" wheels & off-road tires hits, at best, about 270-280 miles. It's not really any further. And the charging infrastructure is far behind the supercharger network I'm used to.

We already have several day trips we simply can't drive to in the Model S, because the charging options just don't make it practical.

I know the 400 mile range version is a better choice for us, but I don't like being forced to choose between getting the vehicle with less range or risking losing out on the above.

Rivian doesn't have control over #2 (they can't control the tax credits), but they can absolutely control the other 3, by guaranteeing pricing and features to preorder holders. If I knew for certain that those would be stable, then I'd feel a lot better about waiting.

 

[Attesan997]

I was and am extremely disappointed. Being in Kentucky, we're already pretty much back-of-the-pack as it is. Even so, I was ready to support Rivian—I've had a Tesla Model S since 2015, and dealt with the growing pains with them. I've been in the process of adding a second wall connector over the break so I can charge both vehicles easily.

My biggest frustration is the uncertainty this brings.

1. There's no guarantee that "2nd half of 2023" (what I got) means we'll see the Max Pack then. It's way too vague for them to feel confident in it. So now I wonder if I'm waiting 2 years or 3 years or more for the vehicle.
2. Right now, it looks like I can get the $7500 tax credit on the vehicle. Since the updated plan doesn't appear to be going to pass this year, that's something I'd rather not give up, since the truck will most likely be above the price limit if it does later.
3. There's no guarantee on pricing. This is true in general, but especially true if we have to wait for another year. I think the odds they'll keep pricing the same is slim at best.
4. I've lost out on certain colors or features in the past by waiting. I really wanted a green Model S, but they dropped that (and the dark blue that was my 2nd choice) by the time I could afford on. Now I want a compass yellow R1T, and I don't know if I can trust they'll still offer that color by the time I get to order my truck. (Heck, they don't seem to have shipped one yet.)

So what do I do? People keep talking about spending $10k for 100miles of range, but in my opinion, the choice is between spending $80k on a vehicle that isn't exactly what you want, or $90k on a vehicle that is. In many ways, if you know you need the max pack, then buying the large pack is effectively throwing away $80k, not saving $10k.

I've owned an EV that only gets 260-270 miles of range for 6 years. A large-pack R1T with the 20" wheels & off-road tires hits, at best, about 270-280 miles. It's not really any further. And the charging infrastructure is far behind the supercharger network I'm used to.

We already have several day trips we simply can't drive to in the Model S, because the charging options just don't make it practical.

I know the 400 mile range version is a better choice for us, but I don't like being forced to choose between getting the vehicle with less range or risking losing out on the above.

Rivian doesn't have control over #2 (they can't control the tax credits), but they can absolutely control the other 3, by guaranteeing pricing and features to preorder holders. If I knew for certain that those would be stable, then I'd feel a lot better about waiting.

Given the track record so far I'd agree that 2H 2023 is vague enough timing as to not count on it for certain. If you know for sure you need the Max Pack, stick with it. You'll always be wishing you had it. The tax credit is up in the air, who knows what will happen.

 

[Trekkie]

My Reaction was to order a 2022 Audi e-tron S Sportback.

I'll drive that until it gets here, if it gets here. There is no way I'm buying a large pack, my plan is to camp, and tow a small trailer, i want at least 200 miles range with a light weight pop up tent trailer.
Am I dreaming? maybe, but until then I'll be driving my longtime favorite car brand, enjoying CarPlay which I've complained for not being there for a while now

Not cancelling, just fall 2023 is a long way away. I ordered late. Gonna let it ride.

 

[mgc0216]

400 miles of range shrinks real fast when it’s -30, and some more range is knocked off by all-terrain or winter tires.

I live in a place with extreme weather and big distances. I’d option a bigger gas tank on every car I’ve ever had if I could’ve.

Clearly you are an exception, which is why they constantly qualifying their statements with "most people".

 

[the long way downunder]

definitely a blunder for Rivian, especially to announce this crucial production failure just days after their first earnings and not even explain why there's such an inordinate delay … this hands my next EV purchase to Ford and the F-150 Lightning, but I hope my R1S order works out for '23.
funnily enough, my garage going from 2020 to 2022 will go from Tesla, Tesla, Tesla to Ford, Ford, Rivian …

 

[cmiller]

definitely a blunder for Rivian, especially to announce this crucial production failure just days after their first earnings and not even explain why there's such an inordinate delay … this hands my next EV purchase to Ford and the F-150 Lightning, but I hope my R1S order works out for '23.
funnily enough, my garage going from 2020 to 2022 will go from Tesla, Tesla, Tesla to Ford, Ford, Rivian …

Just make sure you are not at one of the Ford dealers that marking up the lighting $10k

 

[crashmtb]

Clearly you are an exception, which is why they constantly qualifying their statements with "most people".

My local “why do I live here?” half of the year is just an example, obviously an edge case compared to anyone south of ~40 degrees and near a warm coast.

But 300miles of range out of the ”large” battery just isn’t happening at highway speeds with any kind of headwind, consistent uphill, all-terrain tires or softer “sport” tires, etc etc.

It’s a real pain to stop frequently on a long trip.

 

[nc10]

I was surprised it’s only like a 20% take rate on the Max Pack but that explains it, prioritize the majority of customers with the Large pack.

What would the overall rate be if max packs were also available on LE’s and R1S’s? I’d guess it would be 40+% for a $10k option if it was available on all preorders. I think demand for the Max pack is larger than what’s implied by the 20% statement.

I can “fill up” up at home much more cheaply than I can on the road. Saves much time also. And would better allow me to to better stay in the 30-80% charge range (approx) to maximize the usable battery lifetime. I ordered a LE, in 2019, we were told the Max pack would be available at launch. Still disappointed it’s not.

 

[the long way downunder]

Just make sure you are not at one of the Ford dealers that marking up the lighting $10k

yes, that's the sickening reality of dealer franchise contracts – when demand exceeds production, they gouge the first-kid-on-the-block buyers along with the "but I ordered this at msrp two years ago?!" buyers. Ford (or Porsche or the others) just say their hands are tied and there's nothing in the law that says prices of cars can't go up or down.
Fortunately, the dealer I've chosen has a long-standing policy of no gouging. Sometimes no discounts, but no "market adjustment." I bought my F-150 Prius there in early 2021 and they promptly replied in person to thank me for my business and to assure me whatever happens, they'll not be playing favorites or handing the first production runs to friends to "flip" for a profit.

 

[orionexp]

This makes the most sense to me. I’ll keep this for a while but certainly not forever. At some point it will still be worth a decent amount and I can trade it in for the updates and improvements. When we start getting into 500 miles of range, faster charging, or other features that will be worth it for me.

Exactly. Its still the same truck that won Motor Trend Truck of the Year for 2022. So if that’s just 3 years til we see the improvements you mentioned, the truck Will have good resale value To put down on a new one. Hopefully production will be really going so the waits won’t be as long. Starting to feel better about the downgrade to Large.

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