Anyone else completely disappointed that MaxPack battery not available until 2023?

[orionexp]

How many really "need" 400 miles of range? 300 miles is a long way. Longer than my bladder can go. EV's still aren't the most practical for long distance travel. If you're someone that travels over 1,000 miles on a regular basis, EV's probably aren't the best option, yet. However, for daily driving needs, 300 miles is way more than most people will ever need. Thus, if you're someone who only travels over 300 miles a couple of times of year, then the inconvenience of having to stop longer to charge over just filling with gas is worth the tradeoff of what you benefit every other day.

Likewise, more range would be better for towing, but again, if you're someone that tows over 500 miles on a very regular basis, again, EV's are still not the most practical for that application. Even the 400 mile battery is likely going to struggle to get 200 miles while towing anything over 5,000 lbs. So in that respect, its only about a 50 mile difference when compared with the Large Pack. I can't imagine too many purchasing and EV truck to use primarily for towing long distances on a daily basis.

I'm one that always wants more range, just because. But honestly, I never have a real need for it. I have the long range Model S. Previously had a 2013 Model S that only had 190 miles in real world highway speeds range. The newer one is rated for 400 miles, but is closer to 270 miles at "keep up with the flow" highway speeds. I find that I still stop at the same places I did with the prior Model S. The only difference being, I save a few minutes on the charge time with the newer car. But, in either case, the time is in the 30 minute range, which is far longer than a 3-4 minute stop for gas. So, adding 5-10 minutes really doesn't make much difference.

It's more psychological than it is practical. Not saying its going to be true for EVERYONE, but for MOST people, a 300 mile range vehicle will serve you just as well as a 400 Mile Range battery. I too originally ordered the 400 mile pack, just because. Then realized it likely would delay delivery by at least a year and changed my configuration a few months ago. If I'm going to drive from California to New York, I wouldn't take either one. Would rent a gas car. I'll do trips that require no more than 1 stop, maybe 2 on the rare occasions. Otherwise, the added time to charge for longer distance travel is just too much of a sacrifice (for me). For the 1 stop trips, happy to sacrifice the time for the year long benefits of EV use. So, point being, for a large majority of you, you won't even notice the difference between having 300 miles or 400 miles. Plug it in each night at home and you have more than enough for daily needs either way. The 300 mile battery is lighter and more efficient than toting around a bunch of extra weight for the 400 mile battery you're never using. Thus, in addition to the $10,000 you save up front, you'll also save with each charge as your wh/mi will be notably higher with the smaller battery.

If that helps anyway. Speaking from experience with EV's over the past 9+ years.

Excellent answer, thanks!

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[Max]

How many really "need" 400 miles of range? 300 miles is a long way. Longer than my bladder can go. EV's still aren't the most practical for long distance travel. If you're someone that travels over 1,000 miles on a regular basis, EV's probably aren't the best option, yet. However, for daily driving needs, 300 miles is way more than most people will ever need. Thus, if you're someone who only travels over 300 miles a couple of times of year, then the inconvenience of having to stop longer to charge over just filling with gas is worth the tradeoff of what you benefit every other day.

Likewise, more range would be better for towing, but again, if you're someone that tows over 500 miles on a very regular basis, again, EV's are still not the most practical for that application. Even the 400 mile battery is likely going to struggle to get 200 miles while towing anything over 5,000 lbs. So in that respect, its only about a 50 mile difference when compared with the Large Pack. I can't imagine too many purchasing and EV truck to use primarily for towing long distances on a daily basis.

I'm one that always wants more range, just because. But honestly, I never have a real need for it. I have the long range Model S. Previously had a 2013 Model S that only had 190 miles in real world highway speeds range. The newer one is rated for 400 miles, but is closer to 270 miles at "keep up with the flow" highway speeds. I find that I still stop at the same places I did with the prior Model S. The only difference being, I save a few minutes on the charge time with the newer car. But, in either case, the time is in the 30 minute range, which is far longer than a 3-4 minute stop for gas. So, adding 5-10 minutes really doesn't make much difference.

It's more psychological than it is practical. Not saying its going to be true for EVERYONE, but for MOST people, a 300 mile range vehicle will serve you just as well as a 400 Mile Range battery. I too originally ordered the 400 mile pack, just because. Then realized it likely would delay delivery by at least a year and changed my configuration a few months ago. If I'm going to drive from California to New York, I wouldn't take either one. Would rent a gas car. I'll do trips that require no more than 1 stop, maybe 2 on the rare occasions. Otherwise, the added time to charge for longer distance travel is just too much of a sacrifice (for me). For the 1 stop trips, happy to sacrifice the time for the year long benefits of EV use. So, point being, for a large majority of you, you won't even notice the difference between having 300 miles or 400 miles. Plug it in each night at home and you have more than enough for daily needs either way. The 300 mile battery is lighter and more efficient than toting around a bunch of extra weight for the 400 mile battery you're never using. Thus, in addition to the $10,000 you save up front, you'll also save with each charge as your wh/mi will be notably higher with the smaller battery.

If that helps anyway. Speaking from experience with EV's over the past 9+ years.

This is another way of saying more is not always better. I wonder how Rivian would do here:

 

[orionexp]

I was and am extremely disappointed. Being in Kentucky, we're already pretty much back-of-the-pack as it is. Even so, I was ready to support Rivian—I've had a Tesla Model S since 2015, and dealt with the growing pains with them. I've been in the process of adding a second wall connector over the break so I can charge both vehicles easily.

My biggest frustration is the uncertainty this brings.

1. There's no guarantee that "2nd half of 2023" (what I got) means we'll see the Max Pack then. It's way too vague for them to feel confident in it. So now I wonder if I'm waiting 2 years or 3 years or more for the vehicle.
2. Right now, it looks like I can get the $7500 tax credit on the vehicle. Since the updated plan doesn't appear to be going to pass this year, that's something I'd rather not give up, since the truck will most likely be above the price limit if it does later.
3. There's no guarantee on pricing. This is true in general, but especially true if we have to wait for another year. I think the odds they'll keep pricing the same is slim at best.
4. I've lost out on certain colors or features in the past by waiting. I really wanted a green Model S, but they dropped that (and the dark blue that was my 2nd choice) by the time I could afford on. Now I want a compass yellow R1T, and I don't know if I can trust they'll still offer that color by the time I get to order my truck. (Heck, they don't seem to have shipped one yet.)

So what do I do? People keep talking about spending $10k for 100miles of range, but in my opinion, the choice is between spending $80k on a vehicle that isn't exactly what you want, or $90k on a vehicle that is. In many ways, if you know you need the max pack, then buying the large pack is effectively throwing away $80k, not saving $10k.

I've owned an EV that only gets 260-270 miles of range for 6 years. A large-pack R1T with the 20" wheels & off-road tires hits, at best, about 270-280 miles. It's not really any further. And the charging infrastructure is far behind the supercharger network I'm used to.

We already have several day trips we simply can't drive to in the Model S, because the charging options just don't make it practical.

I know the 400 mile range version is a better choice for us, but I don't like being forced to choose between getting the vehicle with less range or risking losing out on the above.

Rivian doesn't have control over #2 (they can't control the tax credits), but they can absolutely control the other 3, by guaranteeing pricing and features to preorder holders. If I knew for certain that those would be stable, then I'd feel a lot better about waiting.

Yeah, 1st half of 2023 is to vague for me. I read that as Sept to December 2023. January 2023? ???

 

[Hexijen]

At the end of the day, I'm surprised that 20% of people would spend an extra $10 grand on the Max Pack for extra range they *may* want once or twice a year. But to each their own.

Cant speak for everyone else but I'm planning to tow a camper full time overlanding and travelling away from infrastructure, so halving the range is my starting point. If i have to be able to return then im looking at 100 miles away from a charger. So the extra range matters very much and will see constant use

 

[Trekkie]

64k ought to be enough for everyone.

I'm going with the max pack based on now three winter roadtrips worth of experience. My 245 range X got at best 120, and took twice as long to charge than it did in the summer, and it was 40 degrees not super cold.

This was loaded with passengers and their luggage, no trailer.

This is with improved Supercharger access even, i tried my best to 'ride the charge curve' but there were still a few spots in IL and KY that are very far apart for chargers.

I'm in no hurry, I'll enjoy my Etron S until one of my two preorders is ready, then I'll turn that lease in and buy the R1S and R1T Max.

 

[Mjhirsch78]

I am bummed. I already have an EV with “300 miles” of range that realistically gets 200 for the longer driving we do roughly 2 weekends a month during the school year(mountains, cold, highway speeds, often only 1 real charging option for the drive) and 3 times per week summer driving.

My wife and I love our Model Y. We do not want to go back to an ICE car. The cost savings alone in fuel/oil in the 9 months we have owned it has been upwards of $2200 (we put on 20k miles because we are essentially a 1-car family now as the old van is starting to make fun noises and is there in case of emergency). We will love our R1T.

Having to go another 1.5 years potentially driving two kids who are in sports and activities and aligning the schedule with the two adults is a bear. This delay means we will likely have to do it for another school year. That is a bit overwhelming. As a teacher, I already spend enough time at school.

Could we bite the bullet and get the 300 mile range? Sure. However, we are the use case where the 400 mile range matters. 24k miles/year on our vehicle should give you a sense of how many miles we put on. It would go a long way for Rivian to send those of us holding out a guarantee in writing that since we committed so long ago, we are guaranteed our color and price.

It doesn’t solve the current dilemma of almost no EVs in the sub 40k range that we can buy as a holdover. However, it will make it a bit easier on the brain knowing that we will be getting this vehicle once they get the battery supply sorted.

 

[sevengroove]

Could we bite the bullet and get the 300 mile range? Sure. However, we are the use case where the 400 mile range matters. 24k miles/year on our vehicle should give you a sense of how many miles we put on. It would go a long way for Rivian to send those of us holding out a guarantee in writing that since we committed so long ago, we are guaranteed our color and price.

It doesn’t solve the current dilemma of almost no EVs in the sub 40k range that we can buy as a holdover. However, it will make it a bit easier on the brain knowing that we will be getting this vehicle once they get the battery supply sorted.

I don't have a horse in this race (R1S LE) but I'm curious how you Max packers might feel about just getting a Large pack sooner, and trading it in for a Max pack when they're ready in 2023. Especially if you're looking at holdovers that do not have that range and/or capability, why not leverage your earlier pre-order date to get a Rivian sooner, and put in a fresh order for a Max pack where you'll be at the back of a much shorter queue?

Another consideration that I've seen come up is that charging infrastructure is only going to get better over the next couple of years, so the need for a Max pack might not be as critical as time passes.

 

[Cassidy_DM]

64k ought to be enough for everyone.

I'm going with the max pack based on now three winter roadtrips worth of experience. My 245 range X got at best 120, and took twice as long to charge than it did in the summer, and it was 40 degrees not super cold.

This was loaded with passengers and their luggage, no trailer.

This is with improved Supercharger access even, i tried my best to 'ride the charge curve' but there were still a few spots in IL and KY that are very far apart for chargers.

I'm in no hurry, I'll enjoy my Etron S until one of my two preorders is ready, then I'll turn that lease in and buy the R1S and R1T Max.

That's my concern and why I'm currently sticking with the max pack for now. Like you, my R1T is going up in the mountains on 20" ATs, with the tent and the camp kitchen and whatever other bits and bobs I decide to stuff in it, all in sub-optimal weather. Is 314 miles going to be enough range to to do all that and make it back out to the nearest charger? Until someone like Kyle from Out of Spec gets their hands on an R1T and does some copious amounts of testing, I won't feel good about downsizing to the large pack.

If it were just a daily driver (and nothing else), though, I'd save the $10k in a heartbeat.

 

[Riviot]

getting a Large pack sooner, and trading it in for a Max pack when they're ready in 2023

@orionexp , ^ that's my plan. My Dec 2018 pre-order for LE R1T w/ AT has April-May 2022 estimated delivery, and my Dec 2021 pre-order for max pack R1T has second half 2023 estimated delivery. That's 18 months, two summers and a winter of testing, to learn if Large is enough for me. If not, trade in and upgrade to Max pack.

Why not give this a try? Yeah yeah, "We're not all rich tech nerds who can throw around $1000." Neither am I, just a simple active duty E7 who is willing to invest in my future needs ?

 

[sevengroove]

Why not give this a try? Yeah yeah, "We're not all rich tech nerds who can throw around $1000." Neither am I, just a simple active duty E7 who is willing to invest in my future needs

Not to mention, you could probably still "flip" an 18 month old Rivian for a profit, or break even at the very least. My 30-month-old Lexus RX350 has dropped only $2k in value from its MSRP based on recent trade-in values.

 

[Riviot]

Not to mention, you could probably still "flip" an 18 month old Rivian for a profit, or break even at the very least. My 30-month-old Lexus RX350 has dropped only $2k in value from its MSRP based on recent trade-in values.

Our other plan is change the Max R1T reservation to a Max R1S when allowed. My wife's 2012 Civic will be ready for retirement at that point.

 

[emoore]

I don't have a horse in this race (R1S LE) but I'm curious how you Max packers might feel about just getting a Large pack sooner, and trading it in for a Max pack when they're ready in 2023. Especially if you're looking at holdovers that do not have that range and/or capability, why not leverage your earlier pre-order date to get a Rivian sooner, and put in a fresh order for a Max pack where you'll be at the back of a much shorter queue?

Another consideration that I've seen come up is that charging infrastructure is only going to get better over the next couple of years, so the need for a Max pack might not be as critical as time passes.

I don’t like switching cars often so that’s why I’m waiting for the max pack. I’ll probably keep my R1T for 10-15 years.

 

[cmiller]

I am still torn what to do. I can easily get by with the large pack even when I take road trips. Plus work is not far away. I will probably get rid of the truck when the avg range is 500 miles or more so I don't think it's worth an extra $10k, but then I wonder if everything I just said was bullshit after adding all terrain tires and other stuff that will decrease my range.

 

[sevengroove]

I don’t like switching cars often so that’s why I’m waiting for the max pack. I’ll probably keep my R1T for 10-15 years.

I can understand that perspective. I’m used to leasing vehicles so a 2-3 year turnover rate is not unusual for me.

 

[Max]

Yeah, 1st half of 2023 is to vague for me. I read that as Sept to December 2023. January 2023? ???

RJ: “We are introducing a new feature on your Rivian account page that will display your current delivery timing estimate…our goal is to give you accurate, up-to-date details about your specific preorder”

I would call this the slip page. As the windows slip, we can see the new estimate so if the delivery ends up being a year late, it would be a gradual change in estimate and we keep our reservation.

That said, no matter how inaccurate my estimate may be, I am glad I have one.

I don’t like switching cars often so that’s why I’m waiting for the max pack. I’ll probably keep my R1T for 10-15 years.

Me2. I am hoping by the time I have lost enough range to regret not getting a Max pack (may be in 10 years), $10K could get me a new lighter battery with more range.

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