R2 buyers - will you wait for gen 3 hardware (including LiDAR)?

[ndmiller]

I could care less about Gen3 hardware or lidar. I've driven Lexus SUV's without blind spot monitoring for 150K miles.

What matters is what it looks like, how it drives and the functional features along with the final price. If that works out, it will be a winner, otherwise I'll look to other choices (Scout or other EV choices) and get a refund. I have 2 reservations in case it's a winner for multiple family members.

As for my wife, she is getting a GLS450-580-63 (?) next year and has zero interest in an EV anything at this point. Once there's a compelling luxury EV SUV choice, she'll be ready for an EV. We've looked at all current choices and they don't cut it by a lot.

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[mkhuffman]

#4 - you have a legacy vehicle mindset. Rivian vehicles (and Tesla) are subscription based tech platforms with wheels; like a smartphone. So yes, we all have expectations and Rivian does have obligations to make it better over time. Or, like a smartphone, we will dump Windows mobile for iPhone.

I don't think you understand basic contract law. You should review the sales contract for your vehicle purchase and show me where it says they guarantee to update your truck and add features you didn't have when you purchased it.

Maybe you can prove me wrong. Mine doesn't have anything like that in it. There is nothing in there about guaranteed L3 Autonomy. Right?

 

[savethemanual]

I could care less about Gen3 hardware or lidar. I've driven Lexus SUV's without blind spot monitoring for 150K miles.

What matters is what it looks like, how it drives and the functional features along with the final price. If that works out, it will be a winner, otherwise I'll look to other choices (Scout or other EV choices) and get a refund. I have 2 reservations in case it's a winner for multiple family members.

As for my wife, she is getting a GLS450-580-63 (?) next year and has zero interest in an EV anything at this point. Once there's a compelling luxury EV SUV choice, she'll be ready for an EV. We've looked at all current choices and they don't cut it by a lot.

Agreed about LIDAR and self driving, not important to me at all. Price, design, driving dynamics, interior ergonomics, durability and a nice sound system are my priorities. Your wife should look into the new Range Rover EV coming up...if they can recover from that huge cyber attack!

 

[SANZC02]

Why would anyone buy an initial R2 unless there are amazing lease deals. Rivian is "shooting themselves in the foot" by essentially announcing fast-tracked planned obsolesce (and depreciation). Are their enough people that want the R2 so badly that they don't necessarily care about the hardware upgrades 6 mos down the line (and do those people have the necessary risk tolerance to buy the early VINs of a new vehicle)? I love my R1T enough that I'll just likely wait for the R3x at this point and cancel my early day-1 reservation for R2 (excepting only a limited scenario where "something" happens to my R1T).

There are a lot of people out there that are fine not chasing the latest and greatest.

If what I’m looking at fits what I need I’m good. No matter what you buy these days with the rate of technology changes there is something newer right around the corner. I did not feel like my G1 no longer fit my needs when the G2 came out, no plans to get rid of it anytime soon.

I just do not think it will be that big of an impact where they will have an issue moving the G2 R2s they build.

 

[godfodder0901]

I don't think you understand basic contract law. You should review the sales contract for your vehicle purchase and show me where it says they guarantee to update your truck and add features you didn't have when you purchased it.

Maybe you can prove me wrong. Mine doesn't have anything like that in it. There is nothing in there about guaranteed L3 Autonomy. Right?

I generally agree with your sentiment, but there are many ways to enforce verbal contracts. Just because it wasn't written, doesn't mean no obligation exists.

 

[Gen(R3)Xer]

So it appears that the first production batch of R2s will have gen 2 hardware and sensors. Later around the end of 2026 the gen 3 hardware (including LiDAR) will ship on all R2s and the gen 2 hardware R2 will be discontinued. There will not be an upgrade available to convert gen 2 to gen 3.
My question is, if you have a reservation for an R2, will you take the early gen 2 R2 or wait 6-9 months for the gen 3 R2?

https://riviantrackr.com/news/clearing-up-the-confusion-around-rivian-r2-and-lidar/

I personally think Rivian should do one of two things. One, delay the launch of the R2 until late 2026, so the latest hardware and sensors can be included. Two, leave a space for the lidar and sensors to easily be installed at a later time. Honestly the easiest thing would be to delay. Of course there might be buyers who could care less about autonomy, so why not sell them an R2 early? I think it works out either way. It’ll be a while before the new hardware and sensors are fully utilized anyway (see Tesla working on autonomy for over a decade). I think Rivian will do it in less than half the time due to AI advancements.

 

[mkhuffman]

I generally agree with your sentiment, but there are many ways to enforce verbal contracts. Just because it wasn't written, doesn't mean no obligation exists.

True, but there is no obligation for Rivian to do anything other than fix defects covered by their warranty.

If and when they add L3 Autonomy to my truck, it will increase my brand loyalty, but I will never feel I am entitled to it. Because I am not.

 

[Honey]

As a 2025 R1 Gen 2 owner, I feel cheated.

I feel the same. I just got the quad in September.

 

[Leesonw]

Not really interested in autonomy but at the same time I don't want to buy a vehicle whose hardware is obsolete on day one. This whole development really makes me question if Rivian has their act together. Pending new info, at this point, if I can lease an early one for two years, I will. If not, I think I will lease something else for two years and see what happens. My current vehicle is unlikely to make until 2027. Disappointed.

 

[AirplaneDr]

I'm wondering if the R2 Gen2 hardware continues in parallel with Gen3/LiDAR once it gets released. I could see Rivian offer Gen2 as standard and Gen3 as a $5000 option.

If R2 Gen2 is really just a 6 month production run I would stay away from it due to low production numbers and future support. If R2 Gen2 sticks around for 2-3 years and sees 100k+ production numbers it really changes the equation for me.

I really don't think the choice is R2 Gen2 or wait 6 months for R2 Gen3 at the same cost. It will be a choice of Gen2 or Gen3+6 month delay+a not insignificant additional cost.

 

[SANZC02]

I generally agree with your sentiment, but there are many ways to enforce verbal contracts. Just because it wasn't written, doesn't mean no obligation exists.

I’m not a lawyer but my understanding is a verbal contract only works if a written contract does not exist. Once a contract is drafted and signed the only obligations are what is within the 4 corners of that contract.

Am I mistaken?

I always made sure when negotiating a purchase to ensure whatever the salesperson told me was in an addendum on the sales contract.

 

[tobyringle]

Waiting for Lidar seems reasonable. However Eyes Off and Level 4 autonomy is still 3-4 years away. By then, there will be Gen 4 Hardware. Having Lidar on R2 at this stage seems to be more beneficial for Rivian for data collection.

 

[mkhuffman]

I feel the same. I just got the quad in September.

There isn't even a Gen3 R1 announced yet.

 

[Leesonw]

Other than autonomy features, might there be other reasons to wait for gen 3?

 

[Rade]

Though we have a reservation on an R2S, we just entered into a 3 year lease on a Tesla Model Y. Our objective was to roll from that into the R2 when the lease comes to term (or if we get a really sweet lease buy-out offer) in 32 months. If that is the 2nd Gen R2 with LIDAR, fantastic!

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