3PMSF, probably not what you think it means.

[UnsungZero_OldTimeAdMan]

Brief summary:

• The testing standard is different in the US and Europe
• Tires bearing this symbol might: A) barely meet requirements, B) meet requirements, or C) does not meet requirements and is using the symbol "illegally"
• In the US the testing is self-certified by each tire manufacturer
• "It's not illegal unless you get caught". And the standard is not actively monitored by the government.
• More or less a marketing tool that can be abused
• Buyer beware

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[Dark-Fx]

It's only a measured difference for straight line performance, which is somewhat useless for a lot of situations.

 

[tmbm50]

I don't know, I watch the video and seems mostly click bait.

Sure the 3PMSF is not some hard won qualification, and having that rating should never be your only metric for buying a snow tire; but just look at most US brands, they are not slapping that rating on 99% of tires.

If it was so easy to meet and not regulated you'd see every all-season grand touring tire with it. Instead you have a fairly small sliver of tires with it. His arguments fall flat with what we actually see in the market.

 

[UnsungZero_OldTimeAdMan]

I don't know, I watch the video and seems mostly click bait.
Sure the 3PMSF is not some hard won qualification, and having that rating should never be your only metric for buying a snow tire; but just look at most US brands, they are not slapping that rating on 99% of tires.

This is a misunderstanding of what the video is about. It is specifically about the 3PMSF certification. At no point does it ever say or suggest it is the only metric for vetting tires. It is just one of many, and it goes on to explain what it is, nuances and all, and dispel false notions of it—many of which expressed in this forum.

If it was so easy to meet and not regulated you'd see every all-season grand touring tire with it. Instead you have a fairly small sliver of tires with it. His arguments fall flat with what we actually see in the market.

Because some businesses/manufacturers are more honest than others? Shocker.

 

[tmbm50]

This is a misunderstanding of what the video is about. It is specifically about the 3PMSF certification. At no point does it ever say or suggest it is the only metric for vetting tires. It is just one of many, and it goes on to explain what it is, nuances and all, and dispel false notions of it—many of which expressed in this forum.



Because some businesses/manufacturers are more honest than others? Shocker.

I know he never said its the only metric...I did. I was just picking on his click bait.
He makes it sound like because its self-certified, its the wild west and meaningless. But then points out the tire was recalled and subject to a lawsuit. Clearly its not meaningless nor unenforced or else every tire would have it.

But yes, 3PMS does NOT mean you have a great winter tire as many might assume.

 

[UnsungZero_OldTimeAdMan]

I know he never said its the only metric...I did. I was just picking on his click bait.
He makes it sound like because its self-certified, its the wild west and meaningless. But then points out the tire was recalled and subject to a lawsuit. Clearly its not meaningless nor unenforced or else every tire would have it.

But yes, 3PMS does NOT mean you have a great winter tire as many might assume.

It IS self-certified and potentially meaningless. And he clearly showed examples of each. As for click-baity antics in title thumbnail... what YouTuber striving to grow a following (and revenue) doesn't use the same formula? While many create poor content, doesn't mean every single one does. Blame is in the platform algorithms and how each creator must play it if they want to enough views to pay for and sustain their efforts.

 

[tmbm50]

It IS self-certified and potentially meaningless. And he clearly showed examples of each.

Who said it wasn't self-certified.

I guess we disagree on his point. Not disagreeing its self-certified. He is suggesting that self-certified means its ripe for fraud, and thus mostly meaningless, but then shows that the one example tire was recalled and lost a lawsuit. To me that's proof of the opposite, that while there is a small risk that a tire bought in the US today is falsely meeting the standard, its not overly abused and bad actors do get caught.....self certified or not. The small fraction of tires with 3PMS also shows its not just slapped on every tire around.

Wait till you find out how aircraft manufactures self-certify their parts as airworthy.

I've said my take..I'm out.

 

[COdogman]

Totally agree with that conclusion. Always better off buying tires based on solid reviews than whether they have this symbol on the sidewall.

 

[Seano]

I’d say do both: good reviews + that symbol gets you through chain controls.

In my youth we used to drive a friends RWD Audi coupe up to Tahoe and could usually sail through chain control with good winter tires, but 1x they stopped us, crawled under the car and pointed us to the side of the road to install chains

 

[usulio]

It's only a measured difference for straight line performance, which is somewhat useless for a lot of situations.

Similar issue is when all terrain tires (like the Rivian Pirellis) may be decent in several inches of snow and get a 3PMSF rating, but they do NOT have a soft compound for grip in cold and icy conditions.

 

[Thedude]

3PMSF is a joke in real winter conditions. A snow tire is night and day difference in traction and safety.

 

[elatrickWheels]

3PMSF, like so many abbreviations, means nothing to me, except to signal that the author is “on the in” and the ignorant reader is ”on the out.”
Three point multi service fluid. Three people met in San Francisco.
Please spell it out fully to define the abbreviation before using it.

 

[UnsungZero_OldTimeAdMan]

3PMSF, like so many abbreviations, means nothing to me, except to signal that the author is “on the in” and the ignorant reader is ”on the out.”
Three point multi service fluid. Three people met in San Francisco.
Please spell it out fully to define the abbreviation before using it.

Tell me you didn't watch the video, without telling me.

 

[elatrickWheels]

First of all, sorry for being so crotchety. I got out of the wrong side of bed this morning. But perhaps my point was that I didn’t want to have to watch the video to find out whether I wanted to watch the video.

Of course, all that was to save time, and here I am spending more time (a) apologizing for being a jerk, (b) debating the topic of abbreviations, and (c) thinking of more possible meanings.

Three piggies make some fun. Three parrots must stop fornicating.

I’ll stop now.

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