R2 emergency door opening sanity check

[macb00kemdanno]

So just to play Devil's Advocate here.

What if Rivian and other manufacturers provide an internal release similar to the front doors as many advocate and a number of kids manage to fall out from a moving vehicle by using it to override the software driven child lock? There is a reason why child locks were implemented in the first place after all.

It seems the odds of a child falling out because they are messing around with a door latch on mass produced cars is going to be much higher than the very rare car fires that seem to be driving the expressed concerns about the current system.

I do notice that no R1S owners seem to have picked up on the third row egress issue I highlighted in the original post, so I'm curious if none of them ever put people in that third row because of the risk?

Every other vehicle sold in the U.S. has rear door child safety locks — it’s a safety requirement that’s been around for FOUR decades.

In most vehicles, it's a little latch/switch/key cylinder on the rear edge of the door. This isn't rocket science.

As for third-row egress, they would have to exit through the second row, which would be even more difficult because they would have to climb over seats, pull off a panel, and pull a cable to get out.


Anyway, here's a BRIGHT idea:

If you are going to do electronic child locks, rear physical door handles should be MANDATORY in the rear seats. That way, if the child locks are activated, the crash will unlock it immediately, allowing the rear passengers to escape WITH the handle.

I also don't understand your comment about a child overriding a software-driven lock while stationary or while in motion. Even with physical rear door handles, they can only open the doors if the parent has not enabled the child safety lock feature on the rear door. If the parent was dumb enough not to enable the lock, of course, they could fall out.

And adding on to that, many cars won't even let you open the door once you reach a certain speed anyway -- even without child locks enabled.

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[Just Passing By]

My concern is less interior egress: it is exterior access when power is compromised.

This would be my concern too. Good points made with respect to this.

 

[Just Passing By]

Every other vehicle sold in the U.S. has rear door child safety locks — it’s a safety requirement that’s been around for FOUR decades.

Well aware of child safety locks as I mentioned in my OP and also in the post you responded to.
Ref the rest, DuoRivians described the BMW type of solution, which I wasn't aware of and hadn't considered, so I got that thanks.

 

[BigSkies]

Has anyone asked anyone at all that has been involved in a serious accident if they were able to critically think through these kind of steps in the moment.

Or as a friend in the military told me: "We are all action heros until shots are fired in your direction".

This is the basis for my opinion about these alternative emergency latches being unsafe. I haven't been in a major accident with them, but I have been to war twice, and I know how the human body reacts in a high adrenaline situation.

Your body doesn't function like you think it does when adrenaline kicks in.

Your ability to complete muscle-memory type tasks goes WAY up. Like 100x. This is a part of your brain that is biologically more active when in a high adrenaline situation. This is why the military spends so much time practicing things like magazine swaps, machine gun barrel changes, Medevac requests, etc. You want these to be in the muscle-memory part of your brain. You're not even consciously aware of doing these muscle memory tasks, you just do them.

However, your ability to perform thinking tasks goes down significantly. I'd guess by about 80%. This isn't a choice, it is biology. Even something as simple as looking for a handle you don't normally use taps into this part of your brain that is almost completely shut down. Many people will not be able to find an alternative handle, even if they've read the user guide and theoretically know where it is.

 

[ElGuano]

However, your ability to perform thinking tasks goes down significantly. I'd guess by about 80%. This isn't a choice, it is biology. Even something as simple as looking for a handle you don't normally use taps into this part of your brain that is almost completely shut down. Many people will not be able to find an alternative handle, even if they've read the user guide and theoretically know where it is.

I kinda hope some people in one of the other threads, saying "passengers getting into your car should familiarize themselves with the owner's manual first" to address the manual release issue, will see this.

 

[scottf200]

Doesn't this yellow text sounds like you do NOT need to pull the hidden cord.

See: https://riviantrackr.com/news/rivian-explains-r2-electronic-door-latches-after-concerns/

The biggest worry is simple. What happens if power is lost in a crash?
According to Wassym, Rivian designed the system with full redundancy between the high voltage battery and the 12V system. In a collision, the architecture is built to maintain power to the electronic door system. This is not a single point of failure setup.

But the real advantage is what software enables. He highlighted child locks as an example. In a traditional mechanical system, engaging child lock physically disconnects the inside handle, meaning rear passengers cannot exit without someone opening the door from the outside. With Rivian’s e-latch system, the vehicle can detect a crash, automatically release child locks, and unlock the doors, allowing rear passengers to exit on their own when safe.

This is very much in line with Rivian’s broader direction. R2 and Gen 2 R1 are being built as deeply integrated, software driven platforms. The e-latch is not just a design change, it is part of a larger shift toward smarter, more coordinated safety systems.

 

[portdirect]

I hate to be the guy saying "Rivian is wrong about their own product," I just find it extremely hard to see that statement as more than post-hoc rationalization. /rant off

Media training - they are using consistent and rehearsed lines.

Doesn't this yellow text sounds like you do NOT need to pull the hidden cord.

See: https://riviantrackr.com/news/rivian-explains-r2-electronic-door-latches-after-concerns/

See my post a bit ago; wassym is only telling part of the story and omitting that other mfrs are able to implement the same functionality whist retaining fully mechanical release handles both the interior and exterior of the door. I wish folks like @Kryptonlogic would research pieces, or at least apply some disclaimers, before blindly amplifying executive statements (esp when it comes to the implication that the doors handles mechanisms are part of the IIHS Top Safety Pick+ criteria - when they are not).

 

[2kwik4u]

I'm old enough and cynical enough to suspect corporate group-think is the cause until proven otherwise. But we don't really know.

I'm with you.

Never attribute to malice what can be attributed to ignorance.......or something like that.

 

[lefkonj]

Be really curious if anyone tested this on the 'electronic' door mechanism that Audi has had for more than 8 years? Our old A7 had these curious if they have the same 'issues' people are complaining about.

 

[SDH]

Humans are just getting lazy and always looking for ways to make things physically easier. A door handle - not difficult. Just pull.

Why the hell do i need a button and all the electronic crap that goes with it when a simple, well sprung handle will do. And then everyone wonders why cars cost so much (hint: its all the computerised sh!t we don't need)

Cars have had them for decades and nobody seemed to mind.

Sorry - rant over now.

 

[ElGuano]

Why the hell do i need a button and all the electronic crap that goes with it when a simple, well sprung handle will do. And then everyone wonders why cars cost so much (hint: its all the computerised sh!t we don't need)

On a regular door? Yeah, not a huge value add. Mechanical doors can do EVERYTHING electric doors can, including auto-lock and unlock (had this since the 80s!), remote triggering, disconnect, etc.

Where electric, or "by-wire" starts making more sense is novel opening mechanisms. Swing-up doors, falcon-wing-doors, minivan sliding doors, automated and even just self-presenting doors. We're arguably seeing more of these, and 1) in a free market I'm totally in support of new/different doors that aren't just swing-out-at-front-hinge, and 2) it makes total sense for some of these fancy door types to be computer controlled, like everything else in the car is quickly becoming (your throttle, brakes, headlights, and soon steering).

I think what kind of gets me most is the double-standard and double-speak about the how we offer easy mechanical access to the front, but not the back, or on the inside, but not the outside, or how it should be fine to expect some passengers to remove a hidden-seam body panel in the event of an emergency. Honestly, these arguments carry more weight with me when you've got unique/fancy doors doing special things, but not for bog-standard mechanisms like the R1/R2.

 

[Dave Cundiff]

I am REALLY looking forward to upgrading backup from Bolts to R2, but it doesn't sound as if the R2 will address this serious safety concern.

Wassym has been right about a lot of things, and my wife and I will certainly test drive and discuss, but I can't make Wassym's Reddit reply make sense to me.

I hope I'm wrong....

Best to all!

 

[Shaqdeez]

Do folks bring this same issue up with rear slider doors on minivans which, if I'm not mistaken, are all electronically activated to open? Isn't the same concern? What am I missing?

 

[Great Gatsby]

Do folks bring this same issue up with rear slider doors on minivans which, if I'm not mistaken, are all electronically activated to open? Isn't the same concern? What am I missing?

People here are making very valid points and are having an honest discussion about safety. This is being brought on as a change Rivian made with Gen2 vehicles that many have seen (including myself) as needless step backwards. However...

Tangent incoming:

As for why the big stink, media. This is specifically being called out as an EV issue. A fun and easy punching bag nowadays. Why the big issue here over let's say people being stuck in the back of coupe? China is banning the e-handles and EVs are being pointed as the problem (some new ICE vehicles also have electronic handles, btw). Any issues related to EVs will get exponentially more coverage than all the horror stories I hear about ICE manufacturers recalling vehicles for failing to do basic car things. Didn't you hear Consumer Reports? ICE cars have figured it out reliability wise and EVs are the real problem now. As for safety, EVs are getting great safety scores because the big battery at the bottom makes it harder for them to roll over (amongst other things). This is not often discussed, but I bet you hear about an EV catching fire quite often. The reason - lazy media and the weird anti-EV agenda.

TLDR: Plenty of issues worth discussing regarding car safety that affects the whole industry, those related to EVs however will be put on a much wider scope.

As for your original comment, I do think sliding doors have a manual backup option in minivans, but someone can correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[sparked]

Wassym has been right about a lot of things, and my wife and I will certainly test drive and discuss, but I can't make Wassym's Reddit reply make sense to me.

Your safety in an emergency goes way up with the redundant power. At that point, it leaves damage to the specific door your trying to exit as the remaining risk, but the other doors would still be operational. Still think they should have done it like the Lucid and ID4, but it's not as egregious as others. Plus, I could always extend the pull string in the event there is some realistic scenario comes along that i'm not comfortable with.

I wish Rivian put out testing of the different possible failure modes and how these vehicles respond so we have more certainty. Harness cut, 12v cut, etc. Maybe someone on youtube should do it?

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