Electrek - Tesla and SpaceX announce $25B ‘Terafab’ chip factory — here’s why it reeks of desperation

[Ralph]

Okay I'll give you that the Tesla is a Rivian competitor in the auto space.

This is about chip fabrication facility. Before you jump about how Rivian is building its own chips, this is an auto forum and not chip fabrication forum.

This really doesn't seem too difficult to understand. There is a sub-forum here titled "Rivian vs. Competitors".

Tesla is doing a fab venture, that will have some (unknown) affect on their ability to compete against their peers - positive or negative. The OP has opinions about that.

Why is this such a problem if posted in the correct sub, as it was/is? Given the evidence at hand, it doesn't seem like forum distraction is at the heart of your complaint.

Perhaps you'd like to rebut the OP's points?

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[Cycliste]

Semiconductor fabrication performed at scale is the most complicated and difficult human endeavor ever. Wafers are difficult. EUV lithography is difficult. Water purification is difficult. Packaging is difficult. TSMC Arizona has been a very difficult project and TSMC copied as closely as possible from their existing fabs. Terafab is BS until the fab is producing at scale.

https://www.blackridgeresearch.com/...tates-us-details-cost-expansion-latest-update

 

[UnsungZero_OldTimeAdMan]

If Rivian's competitors are not allowed to be mentioned/discussed. Then, Tesla fanbois should not ever be allowed to mention/defend the brand.

Fair?

 

[CharonPDX]

This is another Musk pipe dream, no matter howe much money you throw at it. Nine women can't make a baby in a month.

Obligatory toot:

He talked about electric cars. I don't know anything about cars, so when people said he was a genius I figured he must be a genius.

Then he talked about rockets. I don't know anything about rockets, so when people said he was a genius I figured he must be a genius.

Now he talks about software. I happen to know a lot about software & Elon Musk is saying the stupidest shit I've ever heard anyone say, so when people say he's a genius I figure I should stay the hell away from his cars and rockets.

 

[Zoidz]

It's not me that need to relax. I just asked the question how relevant this click bate thread is. Most things from Electrek are just that.

People on this forum love to flame anything Tesla and Elon. I rather read and contribute about Rivian subjects.

I didn't post it to flame or berate Elon as the primary purpose.

1) Tesla and Rivian are computers on wheels. Developments/advancements in chip technology are part of the automotive industry these days so it is directly related. How quickly we forget that shipments of hundreds of thousands of automobiles came to a grinding halt during COVID. And yet complaints that it is unrelated?

2) As we have seen in the past, Elon's statements have a significant impact on the entire EV market segment.

3) Nobody twisted your arm to click on or read this thread. You could have ignored it if you dislike ElecTrek, which appears to be your trigger. This announcement has been covered by 20+ other news outlets with various commentary.

 

[Zoidz]

I just asked the question how relevant this click bate thread is. Most things from Electrek are just that.

I rather read and contribute about Rivian subjects.

Your criticism about this being a non-Rivian thread vs your thread creation history .... SERIOUSLY???

 

[UnsungZero_OldTimeAdMan]

Your criticism about this being a non-Rivian thread vs your thread creation history .... SERIOUSLY???

Just add the guy to your ignore list.

 

[mkg3]

Your criticism about this being a non-Rivian thread vs your thread creation history .... SERIOUSLY???

Thanks for taking the time to do this. Hope it didn't take too much of your time.

If you actually read these titles and the content they all have to do with impact to Rivian. Even the gas price. Another reason to buy an EV, like Rivian, not have to deal with the price fluctuations. SpaceX and Tesla jointly building their fab facility has nothing to do with impact to Rivian.

Also to your one post above about how no one twisted my arm to read this thread, I usually real all new threads. I don't ignore anyone, even if I do not agree with the person's perspective or views. For those that do, its their prerogative.

The difference between the Electrek and other news reporting is that Electrek is an editorial with selectively using the facts to suit their views and intentionally have controversial titles. They don't just report. That's why I'd said it's a click bate. I used to read it when It was more informative. None of the other publications that I've read about the Tearfab has such a slant. While some report the challenges of building a fab plant, they essentially say its a big hurdle or costly.

If it makes you feel better, I will retract my original post on your thread. It appears it has been taken personally - never my intent. This is just a public forum with diverse views and perspeotive amongst Rivian owners, enthusiasts and Rivian in general. I am 2023 R1S owner.

 

[SANZC02]

I for one like seeing things like this, it is interesting to see where competitors are going. It also interested me since Rivian has been doing their own chip design and would not surprise me if at some point Rivian announces a joint venture with someone to start manufacturing those chips.

 

[Ralph]

NOTE: This response posted because we simply have to stop accepting "you can't talk about that here". Would not, if posted in any other subforum than one focused on Rivian's competition.
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How Tesla as a company spends/invests money has a direct relationship to their financial performance and therefore a direct relationship to their competition. Tesla developing their own chips could directly impact Rivian in many ways.

For example Tesla and Space X will have very large pockets, especially with the IPO of Space X. That money will no doubt be used to compete for resources. Especially, but not limited to the humans required to design not only the chips, but to design and build the fabrication facilities. Relatively rare expertise.

Rivian's pockets are quite spartan in comparison. Not relevant?

As far as Electrek goes, there is a group of people that very much liked the site when it was a for years a cheerleader for Tesla. But there were "developments" shall we say.

IMO, this vociferously anti-Electrek group is a subset of a certain group that screams that any news presented in a manner they don't like as slanted or "fake" or click bait. What that means is that any actual analysis of the facts (yes editorial) is somehow unfair, malicious and false on its face. Group members rarely say the same thing about "news" outlets they like. When pressed, they can usually find an example or two where they critique a fellow traveler.

And If you don't think chips have anything to do with the cars Tesla sells, take it up with "the man with the plan". He's the one that claims " all the current fabrication facilities on Earth produce only about 2% of what he would need across all of his projects.

 

[renderpaz]

If Tesla and SpaceX don't go bankrupt in 5 years Fred & Friends are going to have a well documented history of being hilariously wrong.

"But, they were so late!" nobody cares.

I get why folks hate Elon, but look: He undeniably started the modern EV era, the rockets work.. and they land, starlink provides global internet, the cars pretty much drive themselves, and that paralyzed guy can play chess with his thoughts. These are all real and true things that everyone thought were impossible or a scam.

He picks the worlds hardest problems and then gives delusional timelines. Not a crime. Want to know how smart people know he's the real deal? The smartest people in the world choose to work for him despite his obviously problematic public persona. They could work anywhere, but they choose Elon's companies because they get to work on the coolest possible projects.

I have no problem with posts like this, but recognize that if you drop an Electrek link in here, most reasonable people know it will be an unbelievably biased anti-Elon, pro-China slop and its going to trigger people.

 

[VandalSibs]

I get why folks hate Elon, but look: He undeniably started the modern EV era, the rockets work.. and they land, starlink provides global internet, the cars pretty much drive themselves, and that paralyzed guy can play chess with his thoughts. These are all real and true things that everyone thought were impossible or a scam.

I don't think you get it.... Because Elon Musk didn't do those things. The developers, engineers, machinists, and laborers did it. Elon Musk didn't start the modern EV era. He was an investor that insisted he be granted "co-founder" status then muscled out the actual founders.

He sure as hell didn't design or engineer the Merlin rocket engine that launches the Falcon 9 rockets (SpaceX's workhorse launch vehicle), it was actually Tom Mueller.

Elon is a sales/pitchman, much like Steve Jobs - who, compared to the harms that have come to the world via Elon Musk, was a damn saint.

 

[Zorg]

Should succeed as much as the hyper loop or the many miles of tunnels with autonomous cars in them.

 

[Kaiju]

While I admit how ridiculous it is to respond to this sort of 'venture' with the seriousness deserved for something that's not so completely bonkers, did the press just happen to forget the part where only one company makes the lithography machinery for everyone using a 5nm and smaller process? Nobody who owns or operates a chip fab can actually build one on their own, let alone a company with no experience.

I have my doubts ASML is scaling production 10 000% in the next 6 months, and definitely not for the people in question.

Unless of course, the space AI revolution will be powered by the currently most powerful space-rated processor, which I think has advanced to be about equal with what was available in commercial computers in 2006. I'm pretty sure the market for 32nm process gear is a lot more flexible. I suppose it'd be the ultimate hubris if a certain person ignored all that well-earned experience with dead satellities and cosmic rays bit-flipping stuff in unshielded processors with no error correction turned the robots against us, but you know, it'd have to be part of some workable plan first.

 

[UnsungZero_OldTimeAdMan]

Because Elon Musk didn't do those things. The developers, engineers, machinists, and laborers did it. Elon Musk didn't start the modern EV era. He was an investor that insisted he be granted "co-founder" status then muscled out the actual founders.

He sure as hell didn't design or engineer the Merlin rocket engine that launches the Falcon 9 rockets (SpaceX's workhorse launch vehicle), it was actually Tom Mueller.

I predict someone will be dumb enough to reply and call these hard facts of Tesla history “fake news”.

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