In 4th year of waiting ... beginning to question if the wait is worth it

[stynes]

I never claimed Max Packs weren't indicated to be available on day 1. I said they've never committed to producing LE Max Packs. Find me some text that says differently.

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[ESTRUCK]

I would probably be feeling the same if I had been waiting that long. But the other way to look at it is that you know you are likely on the right side of that wait now and it's probably going to be worth it in the end to stick with it!

Unless the dates get pushed back again that puts my wait time to 5+ years. My back up EV is the Silverado RTS fully loaded. Whomever delivers 1st will get my business. Now if Rivian decides to discount the vehicle for being very very patient I might reconsider. R1T Adventure Package with MAX Battery.

 

[the long way downunder]

Tesla revealed the 4680 in 2020.

Do you think they revealed without having done any work on it beforehand? How long do you think that work took before they revealed it? I'd bet it was at least a year or two.

So what you're really saying is that I'm wrong. Tesla is shipping batteries in 2020 developed in 2019 (maybe, could also be 2018) so they're clearly so much better at this than Rivian and Rivian is doomed because their battery technology began development a year beforehand?

Ugh. Straw man arguments either way. The R1T/R1S has a battery, you know what it is. It's either good enough for you or it isn't. If it is not, the forum exit is ---->.

Good grief what a load, who said anything about doomed?

Selling 18650's stacked in a box with 2018 cooling technology is a mistake – as is building the car without a heat pump. Yes, Tesla was selling 18650s then 2170s when they were state of the art.

The "reveal" of the 4680 was a concept, which Musk made clear they did not know how to put into mass production. whatever Tesla did to bring it into production (presumably using IP they retained from Maxwell before selling off the bones, and perhaps Hibar, occurred in 2021 and the first production cars in 2022. Panasonic with start building the 4680 for Tesla and others in 2022.

Rivian did promise the Launch Edition with 180 kWh.
I invite you to the exit, take this memento from Rivian with you:

 

[COdogman]

Unless the dates get pushed back again that puts my wait time to 5+ years. My back up EV is the Silverado RTS fully loaded. Whomever delivers 1st will get my business. Now if Rivian decides to discount the vehicle for being very very patient I might reconsider. R1T Adventure Package with MAX Battery.

That's fair. Chevy obviously has the ability to ramp up production much faster than Rivian would. But didn't they say the RTS would not be offered until after the WT version, like in 2024? It's also quite a bit more expensive than the R1T. Nothing official yet, but I saw the number $108,000 in a couple articles. Vey cool truck though...

I hope Rivian gets you the truck you've been waiting for. That is a long time and I would be going stir crazy myself.

 

[mini2nut]

As a 2023 R1T Explore reservation holder I hedged my bets and placed early refundable deposits on the following BEV's;

-Cybertruck
-Canoo pickup
-Lightning

I will most likely place a refundable deposit on the new VW Buzz BEV van when it debuts on March 9th.

 

[White Shadow]

I want to be all in on EVs and would really like to own an R1S to replace my Grand Cherokee. And eventually I just might. But I've decided to wait for now. Why? Well, the obvious wait time for Rivian to bring these vehicles to market has been longer than expected. Plus, the charging infrastructure still needs to catch up. I'm also not too thrilled about being a beta tester.

That said, I'm really loving what I see in the new generation Grand Cherokee. I'll probably get a new Summit Reserve, drive it for three or four years, then reconsider getting a Rivian. Hopefully by then we will not see supply issues and/or long wait times.

The way I see it, I have the rest of my life to drive EVs. That said, I shouldn't be in any huge hurry to push that agenda right now.

 

[ESTRUCK]

That's fair. Chevy obviously has the ability to ramp up production much faster than Rivian would. But didn't they say the RTS would not be offered until after the WT version, like in 2024? It's also quite a bit more expensive than the R1T. Nothing official yet, but I saw the number $108,000 in a couple articles. Vey cool truck though...

I hope Rivian gets you the truck you've been waiting for. That is a long time and I would be going stir crazy myself.

Well Chevy CS and I trust them as we also own a BOLT EV that late 2023 is their target delivery. This is about the same as Rivians date on my pre oreder. My Rivian configuration hits right at 98,000.00 so its close enough for me price wise. Rivian is in a tough spot having to bend over backwards for AMAZON and EV delivery trucks for them.

 

[SeaGeo]

sorry for my "absolute" nonsense.
the 4680 was not around in '18
Tesla is making LFP batteries (developed in 2021)
the cars BYD sell today are blade packs they designed and built in the last two years
CATL and Tesla are doing the same

LFP batteries aren't new, and their pack density isn't particularly great. Hence Tesla is using them on shorter range cars at the moment in general.
Tesla isn't shipping 4680 in volume yet.
A pack is different than a cell.

Not sure what you're referring to as 2018 cooling tech.

 

[IThinkFreely]

My "window" for my (12-4-18 res) R1T Adventure is July-September. That's not happening. I know it's not. They shut down production last month for "improvements" And are only hoping to get to 200 a week at some point this year. 6 months ago I figured they'd struggle to get all LE units out in 2022 and that's pretty much a lock now. Into 2023 for LEs and unless they overlap with non LE deliveries the windows are 6+ months out.

I had a Bronco Badlands res from way back and have a March build date on that. So I'll have the fun summer truck I wanted, just not the R1T...which has missed both the 2021 and 2022 summers incredibly.

I may cash in on my 4 year old Model 3 which has incredible value right now and keep the float for if and when the R1T is ready.

Point being, we're still at the point where Rivian is so far out you can make other car plans.

 

[intimidator]

I placed my order a few weeks after you. My delivery window is First half of 2023 for the R1T Max pack.

I also have reservations for the Hummer SUT and SUV, Lightning and Silverado. First one to arrive gets my business the rest will be cancelled.

Four and half years is a long time to wait.

Right there with you. Although I don't think there is any chance in heck the Cybertruck is coming before my MaxPack R1T. Maybe my Lightning order.

Now, if this time next year if Rivian delays my Maxpack even more, that will be the last straw. I have started to question Rivian's long term viability if they can't build at least 1000 vehicles a month. They have the money. They have the factory. Material shortages apparently are not a factor.

 

[Inkedsphynx]

Good grief what a load, who said anything about doomed?

Selling 18650's stacked in a box with 2018 cooling technology is a mistake – as is building the car without a heat pump. Yes, Tesla was selling 18650s then 2170s when they were state of the art.

The "reveal" of the 4680 was a concept, which Musk made clear they did not know how to put into mass production. whatever Tesla did to bring it into production (presumably using IP they retained from Maxwell before selling off the bones, and perhaps Hibar, occurred in 2021 and the first production cars in 2022. Panasonic with start building the 4680 for Tesla and others in 2022.

Rivian did promise the Launch Edition with 180 kWh.
I invite you to the exit, take this memento from Rivian with you:

The sense of 'doom' I got from you was from this statement:

Given the technology advances by CATL, BYD and Tesla, all building vehicles with LFP and more range with less degradation, Rivian has to adapt – they can't sell a 2018 spec vehicle in 2022. Charge rate has to go up from 210 to more like 350kW and there has to be area under the curve from 20% to 80%, not just 5% to 15%. The Max Pack could (should … must …) arrive as LFP chemistry in blade packs with no degradation, no thermal runaway, and a fat charge curve. I'm an eternal optimist. : )

"Can't sell", "has to", "must" - those are all words that indicate failing to do so would result in a scenario one might describe as... doom.

I am not sure why you seem to be incapable of grasping "available at launch" != "launch edition". Those two things are. not. the. same.

So again - show me where Rivian EVER said that 180kWh 'max' packs would be available as 'LAUNCH EDITION' vehicles. Not 'at launch'. 'Launch Edition'.

You can't, because they never did.

As far as the rest of your post, so you're re-iterating exactly what I've been saying all along - there isn't an EV on the road that isn't shipping battery tech that predates the vehicle by at least a few years. I love that you call out that it took them at least a year or two to *potentially* bring the 4680 into production - leveraging *pre-existing* IP. So, what you're really saying is that I'm right - it took them many years to develop the 4680 before it even got close to production. So how old is that IP that it was based off? 2018? Older? :eyeroll:

I also love the 'will start building in 2022'. How many times did I hear my CT was going to be in my driveway in 2021? How many times have I heard my R1T would be in my driveway in 2021? I'll believe 'gonna ship in 2022' when I see it.

 

[Inkedsphynx]

Facepalms are not valid a valid rebuttal to an argument.

Again, not sure why it's so hard to grasp 'available at launch' is a phrase in English that does not mean 'Launch Edition'. It means exactly what it says - available at product launch. Says nothing about 'editions' which are entirely up to the manufacturer to choose how to allocate, which Rivian has done, by only building LE R1s that have the Large pack.

 

[stynes]

I was one of the first 1,000 preorders back in 2019 when Rivian debuted at the LA Car Show before Amazon ordered 1,000 and well before Ford’s massive investment as I immediately saw the worth, value and disruption that Rivian was about to unleash on the EV community.

That would have been 2018.

 

[stynes]

Facepalms are not valid a valid rebuttal to an argument.

Again, not sure why it's so hard to grasp 'available at launch' is a phrase in English that does not mean 'Launch Edition'. It means exactly what it says - available at product launch. Says nothing about 'editions' which are entirely up to the manufacturer to choose how to allocate, which Rivian has done, by only building LE R1s that have the Large pack.

You're not making an argument. Hence my facepalm. Whether "available at launch" it means "Launch Edition" or "shipping first," neither are true. So what are you arguing about?

 

[Inkedsphynx]

The statement was made that Rivian promised R1T LE's in Max Pack.

I have said no they did not.

I have not seen anyone who claimed the above indicate they were wrong.

Thus - argument.

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