Xiaomi car business profitable after only two years 😮

[kenyee]

Hoping Rivian has that moment with the R2.

400k cars needs to do it for Xiaomi though:
https://phandroid.com/2026/03/27/xiaomis-car-business-just-crossed-a-massive-milestone/

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[savethemanual]

Not even close to an apples to apples comparison. Xiaomi startup costs were significantly lower due to the subsidies they get.

 

[UnsungZero_OldTimeAdMan]

1. Lots and lots of govt. subsidies under that governing/business system. And large businesses exist only because the central government allow them to exist. Everything is centralized. Their economic policy and national policy are intertwined.

2. Everything and nothing happens w/o blessing of the state. Any numbers and stats to come out of China can't be taken in same faith you'd have from the US or EU. If there was ever independent audit of Xiami's numbers, that independent auditor answers to the same central govt..

3. They don't face the same kind of labor, business and environmental restrictions western counterparts face. Things get expedited when the right wheels are greased or whenever the central govt. deem it beneficial to the state.

4. And then there's the nuts-and-bolts reasons why they have advantage over other automakers (including the Chinese ones): https://insideevs.com/news/779416/xiaomi-profit-toyota-tesla-xai/

 

[Zorg]

My understanding is that the bulk of the subsidies in China are from local governments. While a theoretically centralized economy, China is the most competitive market for EVs in the world.

What Xiaomi has pulled off is impressive.

 

[Donald Stanfield]

It's a lot easier when your government supports EVs instead of works against them.

 

[DuoRivians]

Rivian needs 400k cars/yr as well to achieve profitability at EBIT level. Honestly, not sure if they can at this point.

And China’s EVs are some of the most competitive ones around, even without subsidies at this point.

 

[mkhuffman]

Rivian needs 400k cars/yr as well to achieve profitability at EBIT level. Honestly, not sure if they can at this point.

And China’s EVs are some of the most competitive ones around, even without subsidies at this point.

How do you know the Chinese EVs would be competitive without subsidies?

 

[ndmiller]

Massive revenue milestone, nothing about profit the way I would understand it in GAP or Non-Gap terms. Hoping one day we get to see some of the vehicles the rest of the world gets from them and other manufacturers.

On the subject of subsidies, the US and local governments have and do subsidize many industries to keep them afloat and or profitable. Just the ones getting over $2.0B below (7 are auto companies, #21 is Rivian). A number of the 100 or so getting $600MM or more wouldn't be around without these subsidies.

RANK	PARENT	SUBSIDY VALUE	NUMBER OF AWARDS
1	Boeing	$15,959,241,139	1,135
2	Amazon.com	$14,526,460,010	531
3	Intel	$8,387,434,616	140
4	Ford Motor	$8,007,289,405	717
5	General Motors	$7,768,777,198	825
6	Micron Technology	$6,792,931,915	23
7	Alcoa	$5,727,691,764	134
8	Cheniere Energy	$5,617,152,523	45
9	Foxconn Technology Group (Hon Hai Precision Industry Company)	$4,820,890,447	77
10	Venture Global LNG	$4,338,702,441	8
11	Texas Instruments	$4,287,839,492	81
12	Volkswagen	$4,191,804,970	231
13	NextEra Energy	$3,992,027,445	134
14	Sempra Energy	$3,828,022,782	51
15	Tesla Inc.	$3,160,105,860	117
16	Stellantis	$2,989,570,042	220
17	Sasol	$2,836,049,845	72
18	Walt Disney	$2,817,301,577	294
19	Nucor	$2,595,649,272	223
20	OGE Energy	$2,577,684,579	23
21	Rivian Automotive Inc.	$2,568,659,251	12
22	Hyundai Motor	$2,518,602,158	21
23	Iberdrola	$2,380,579,908	112
24	Oracle	$2,334,272,188	103
25	Alphabet Inc.	$2,318,718,627	141
26	Toyota	$2,316,165,278	208
27	Shell PLC	$2,303,226,371	136
28	Meta Platforms Inc.	$2,296,083,629	108
29	NRG Energy	$2,287,519,152	217
30	Comcast	$2,255,102,404	444
31	Energy Transfer	$2,234,567,247	199
32	Paramount Skydance Corporation	$2,207,106,236	368
33	Mubadala Investment Company	$2,132,479,057	64
34	Nike	$2,121,167,829	166
35	Berkshire Hathaway	$2,018,905,138	1,294

 

[mkhuffman]

Massive revenue milestone, nothing about profit the way I would understand it in GAP or Non-Gap terms. Hoping one day we get to see some of the vehicles the rest of the world gets from them and other manufacturers.

On the subject of subsidies, the US and local governments have and do subsidize many industries to keep them afloat and or profitable. Just the ones getting over $2.0B below (7 are auto companies, #21 is Rivian). A number of the 100 or so getting $600MM or more wouldn't be around without these subsidies.

RANKPARENTSUBSIDY VALUE

NUMBER OF AWARDS1Boeing$15,959,241,1391,1352Amazon.com$14,526,460,0105313Intel$8,387,434,6161404Ford Motor$8,007,289,4057175General Motors$7,768,777,1988256Micron Technology$6,792,931,915237Alcoa$5,727,691,7641348Cheniere Energy$5,617,152,523459Foxconn Technology Group (Hon Hai Precision Industry Company)$4,820,890,4477710Venture Global LNG$4,338,702,441811Texas Instruments$4,287,839,4928112Volkswagen$4,191,804,97023113NextEra Energy$3,992,027,44513414Sempra Energy$3,828,022,7825115Tesla Inc.$3,160,105,86011716Stellantis$2,989,570,04222017Sasol$2,836,049,8457218Walt Disney$2,817,301,57729419Nucor$2,595,649,27222320OGE Energy$2,577,684,5792321Rivian Automotive Inc.$2,568,659,2511222Hyundai Motor$2,518,602,1582123Iberdrola$2,380,579,90811224Oracle$2,334,272,18810325Alphabet Inc.$2,318,718,62714126Toyota$2,316,165,27820827Shell PLC$2,303,226,37113628Meta Platforms Inc.$2,296,083,62910829NRG Energy$2,287,519,15221730Comcast$2,255,102,40444431Energy Transfer$2,234,567,24719932Paramount Skydance Corporation$2,207,106,23636833Mubadala Investment Company$2,132,479,0576434Nike$2,121,167,82916635Berkshire Hathaway$2,018,905,1381,294

To make meaningful conclusions regarding this data, we need to agree what the term "subsidy" means.

If a government gives Rivian a loan, but then Rivian pays it back with interest, does that meet the definition of "subsidy"? Is a temporary reduction in property tax a "subsidy"? Is allowing Rivian to depreciate capital expenses a "subsidy"?

Personally I wish the government would just get out of the way and stop playing around with our money like it is their money.

 

[daeHelkcunK]

China subsidizes by offering more than zero interest loans. They also refuse to protect intellectual property making R&D significantly cheaper when you just copy others work. Not to mention human rights violations that would put any Western firm in prison. So no, I'm not impressed by Chinese growth. I am embarrassed that there are people in this country that would buy a vehicle and support that.

 

[NY_Rob]

I am embarrassed that there are people in this country that would buy a vehicle and support that.

You would be very, very, embarrassed then because if they were allowed to sell one of their $15K EV's here in the states it would become an instant top seller in the country. It's the same with the Chinese garbage they sell on Amazon, Temu, Ali, etc... people buy it because it's available and at a low price.

 

[UnsungZero_OldTimeAdMan]

China subsidizes by offering more than zero interest loans. They also refuse to protect intellectual property making R&D significantly cheaper when you just copy others work. Not to mention human rights violations that would put any Western firm in prison. So no, I'm not impressed by Chinese growth. I am embarrassed that there are people in this country that would buy a vehicle and support that.

On human rights abuses... Given current events in the US, I don't think we are in any position to throw stones. And the US automakers (as well as EU and Japanese counterparts) all manufacture in and source parts from nations with spotty human rights records. If you want to be embarrassed... do it for all of humanity. There are no saints, not even in Rome. Assigning guilt by association, you might as well damn the entire planet. You own a Porsche. Have a look at history of that brand and Germany. C'mon. Seriously?

 

[kurtlikevonnegut]

On human rights abuses... Given current events in the US, I don't think we are in any position to throw stones. And the US automakers (as well as EU and Japanese counterparts) all manufacture in and source parts from nations with spotty human rights records. If you want to be embarrassed... do it for all of humanity. There are no saints, not even in Rome. Assigning guilt by association, you might as well damn the entire planet.

That's a hilariously inapt equivalency. China's low cost of manufacturing is directly tied to their horrific human rights record.

You may not like Elon Musk or the current administration, but Tesla isn't relying on government run reeducation camps for $.15/day labor. The PRC and USA aren't even in the same world on human rights.

 

[DuoRivian]

That's a hilariously inapt equivalency. China's low cost of manufacturing is directly tied to their horrific human rights record.

You may not like Elon Musk or the current administration, but Tesla isn't relying on government run reeducation camps for $.15/day labor. The PRC and USA aren't even in the same world on human rights.

Exactly and the US is not banning religions or putting millions in concentration camps solely based on ethnicity (Ughers). No equivalence.

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