R2 V2L Charging Adapter "Field Outlet" trademarked by Rivian

[Ralph]

It is interesting that I have 100% success discharging my gen1 R1T through the SigEnergy DCFC. True_Dad and I have compared notes a bit and only one thing really stood out iirc. He’s concerned about battery chemistry so he doesn’t set his target Rivian-side SOC as high as I do. I tend to set it to 100% out of convenience when I am wanting discharge because that is always higher than my current SOC. But also it’s clearly not a requirement to target 100% because I also have only successes discharging also with a target lower than 100%. My tests point to the target just needing to be higher than current SOC so that the R1 does not ignore the available charger (which then requests discharge). But also his limit was very clearly a time bound not SOC and I have never hit any time bounds so there’s some other variable possibly. I have never had discharge stop prematurely versus my calculated intent and I always have it running hours on end (albeit slow-ish…8-12KW…can’t run the full 20KW+ from a 150KWH battery for that many hours). I have done this so many times I am quite confident I can run key household stuff through the night (HVAC, internet, fridges, L2 charging the Chevy Bolt , recharge/run on solar during the day, and repeat indefinitely in the sunny half of the year.

Thanks; good to hear. I assume the system switches to grid power if needed (and available). Let us know if you every try it over multiple days. You think the target needs to be higher than the current SOC. But how do you ensure that over several days? Or even 24 hours?

I'm interested in running off solar when possible, using the Rivian(s) to store any excess power, and powering from the grid as last resort.

Thank you again for the added insight.

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[tpepper]

Roughly how much is this setup?

I guess it depends how you choose to count. I got the R1T for around $50k and the bidi DCFC for $6k, so $56k? Or if I don't account the trade in vehicle and do include the solar panels and inverter I was already contracted for when word dropped the DCFC worked with a Rivian, that'd be $80K+$40k respectively, or $120k for the whole setup? But that too is wrong because I invested ahead of the loss of the solar tax credit. The DCFC's definitely paying for itself quickly from the ability to offset to zero high tier time of day utility electricity. I'm starting to think the Rivian might pay for itself versus a diesel if prices stay where they are. The broader solar will be a bit slower to break even unless electricity prices also go up. When I made these investments the promise was all the prices would be going down and it was a dumb investment. I'm sure I'll be kicking myself once gas is back down to a dollar a gallon and AGI has made everything else abundant and cheap too.

 

[tpepper]

Thanks; good to hear. I assume the system switches to grid power if needed (and available). Let us know if you every try it over multiple days. You think the target needs to be higher than the current SOC. But how do you ensure that over several days? Or even 24 hours?

Yes the system prefers grid power. But has settings to prefer PV or battery if that's your thing. For some scenario I personally don't comprehend they even have settings to prefer PV-sourced power in the battery versus grid-sourced power in the battery, or vice versa.

Using the 100% target on the Rivian side makes an easy starting number, just because that's higher than the SOC most of the time. I can tell the SigEnergy to stop charging at 99% to make sure it's never truly at 100%. But it's only going to be briefly at 100% if it's being used. And there's lots of ways to use some baterry...can run a kW load off the Rivian's inverter while running the house off the SigEnergy battery for a bit, etc. Sure that's clunky today. But if my home's off-grid for that long, there's probably not a lot else I'm doing and twiddling app settings and watching charge/discharge curves and running extension cords from the Rivian's inverter to the neighbors fridges and whatnot if needed to manage available charge is probably a good pass time versus whatever other major issue has happened? That said it would be nice if they got around to just shipping a proper bit of human user interface in the car side controls. I certainly wouldn't complain.

 

[Ralph]

I guess it depends how you choose to count. I got the R1T for around $50k and the bidi DCFC for $6k, so $56k? Or if I don't account the trade in vehicle and do include the solar panels and inverter I was already contracted for when word dropped the DCFC worked with a Rivian, that'd be $80K+$40k respectively, or $120k for the whole setup? But that too is wrong because I invested ahead of the loss of the solar tax credit. The DCFC's definitely paying for itself quickly from the ability to offset to zero high tier time of day utility electricity. I'm starting to think the Rivian might pay for itself versus a diesel if prices stay where they are. The broader solar will be a bit slower to break even unless electricity prices also go up. When I made these investments the promise was all the prices would be going down and it was a dumb investment. I'm sure I'll be kicking myself once gas is back down to a dollar a gallon and AGI has made everything else abundant and cheap too.

Thanks!

Would you mind making this a little more clear? If you take vehicles (R1T and trade in) out of the equation, what do you estimate you have in solar panels, inverters, and all Sigenergy "stuff"? Your exact system config (major components) would be interesting but probably too much detail to hope for.

 

[impulsoren]

This is all very interesting to me as I am currently in the early stage of installing solar with a sigenergy load hub and battery (the smallest one simply for the ability to continue to use pv during an outage). Putting off the V2H DCFC for now because we are very experienced at managing electricity during the many outages we experience so don’t actually need the big battery, it will be merely a convenience when it happens. If it doesn’t happen this year or the Rivian solution is overly costly I think the experiences shared here are enough to push me to move forward with the sig dcfc.
Where is the tipping point such that Rivian moves the v2h project up the priority list? Supposedly 25% is the magic number of subjects needed to cause everyone to start doing things that were previously exhibited only by outliers (just finished reading “Revenge of the Tipping Point” by Malcolm Gladwell and had to share).

 

[Jonger1150]

I talked to my Enphase system installer about a bunch of stuff last week. She was really positive on what Franklin is doing with their equipment. And she verified their home batteries are absolutely compatible with Enphase based equipment and her company has personally installed them. Apparently Franklin was founded by former Enphase employees. While they haven't announced anything about a bidi charger yet, she is sure they are working on one.

That would really change things.

 

[Ralph]

Yes the system prefers grid power. But has settings to prefer PV or battery if that's your thing. For some scenario I personally don't comprehend they even have settings to prefer PV-sourced power in the battery versus grid-sourced power in the battery, or vice versa.

Using the 100% target on the Rivian side makes an easy starting number, just because that's higher than the SOC most of the time. I can tell the SigEnergy to stop charging at 99% to make sure it's never truly at 100%. But it's only going to be briefly at 100% if it's being used. And there's lots of ways to use some baterry...can run a kW load off the Rivian's inverter while running the house off the SigEnergy battery for a bit, etc. Sure that's clunky today. But if my home's off-grid for that long, there's probably not a lot else I'm doing and twiddling app settings and watching charge/discharge curves and running extension cords from the Rivian's inverter to the neighbors fridges and whatnot if needed to manage available charge is probably a good pass time versus whatever other major issue has happened? That said it would be nice if they got around to just shipping a proper bit of human user interface in the car side controls. I certainly wouldn't complain.

That is very helpful. This sounds manageable for you. And is certainly workable for off-grid type scenarios.

But It doesn't appear that their system is hands off enough to automate a continuously variable environment where the system optimizes integration of solar panels, EV as battery storage (not just backup), EV charging and the grid etc.

Hats off to you early adopters! Getting us closer all the time...

 

[tpepper]

But It doesn't appear that their system is hands off enough to automate a continuously variable environment where the system optimizes integration of solar panels, EV as battery storage (not just backup), EV charging and the grid etc.

Given the mobile nature of the EV batteries and their cabling, a hands off, automated, continuous solution is unrealistic for the foreseeable future, although the folks at and https://github.com/dalathegreat/Battery-Emulator seem to be onto something.

In the meantime my annual driving energy can all come from my roof or from the grid, whichever is available and most cost optimal in the moment. Aside from the conscious choice occasionally to run my expensive tier metering to net zero, or having planned and practiced for a sustained grid outage, I really don't think about this anymore. It's surprisingly practical and easy and I'm confident in having more resilience than before. Often is easier than keeping my phone charged and running day to day.

 

[tpepper]

Thanks!

Would you mind making this a little more clear? If you take vehicles (R1T and trade in) out of the equation, what do you estimate you have in solar panels, inverters, and all Sigenergy "stuff"? Your exact system config (major components) would be interesting but probably too much detail to hope for.

Solar PV System / Battery install $38,532.20
AWA 02: Install EV Charger $5,995.00

That's before a local energy incentive of $3,290.00 which went to the installer and was subtracted from the overall $41k. And is before the Federal tax credit which I expect any day now.

Installed equipment was a LoadHub (https://www.sigenergy.com/us/products/gateway), a SigStore stack (https://www.sigenergy.com/us/products/sigenstor) with a 5.38KWH battery and the 11.4KW inverter, and 19 SiLFAB SIL 440QD panels. Added to the contract just before install was the DCFC (https://www.sigenergy.com/us/products/dc-charger). And of course all the associated wiring, roof rails, manual safety disconnect switches, labor, permits, 18 year old pre-upgrade solar panels/inverter/rails/etc non-destructive de-installation, etc., etc. rolled into that price.

Writing this down actually reminds me I got less inverter ability than I might have. In the short periods where I've gotten max output from the Rivian it is split filling the house battery and powering the house/grid. To achieve max charging to the car the system boosts from the house battery and available solar. Improving on either of those wasn't something for me that made additional house battery, solar, or inverter hardware particularly worthwhile.

 

[mkhuffman]

Solar PV System / Battery install $38,532.20
AWA 02: Install EV Charger $5,995.00

That's before a local energy incentive of $3,290.00 which went to the installer and was subtracted from the overall $41k. And is before the Federal tax credit which I expect any day now.

Installed equipment was a LoadHub (https://www.sigenergy.com/us/products/gateway), a SigStore stack (https://www.sigenergy.com/us/products/sigenstor) with a 5.38KWH battery and the 11.4KW inverter, and 19 SiLFAB SIL 440QD panels. Added to the contract just before install was the DCFC (https://www.sigenergy.com/us/products/dc-charger). And of course all the associated wiring, roof rails, manual safety disconnect switches, labor, permits, 18 year old pre-upgrade solar panels/inverter/rails/etc non-destructive de-installation, etc., etc. rolled into that price.

Writing this down actually reminds me I got less inverter ability than I might have. In the short periods where I've gotten max output from the Rivian it is split filling the house battery and powering the house/grid. To achieve max charging to the car the system boosts from the house battery and available solar. Improving on either of those wasn't something for me that made additional house battery, solar, or inverter hardware particularly worthwhile.

What is the current rating of the grid circuit feeding the system? Is it 100 Amps?

 

[tpepper]

What is the current rating of the grid circuit feeding the system? Is it 100 Amps?

200

 

[mkhuffman]

200

OK. So to be clear, you have your Sigenergy DCFC connected to a 200 Amp circuit from your main breaker box that is connected to the grid? So if you want to charge at 25 kW, it can pull 105 Amps (ish) from the grid if necessary?

In order for me to make this system work at full potential, I would need to run a 125 Amp circuit from my 200 Amp breaker box to the Sigenergy installation location. I would want it close to my truck, because I am sure the charging cable is not very long.

I park on the far side of the garage (the opposite side from the breaker box), and really I am not sure how I could fit it in. I have some ideas, but it would be a pretty major retrofit in my garage the way it is now.

 

[Ralph]

Given the mobile nature of the EV batteries and their cabling, a hands off, automated, continuous solution is unrealistic for the foreseeable future, although the folks at and https://github.com/dalathegreat/Battery-Emulator seem to be onto something.

In the meantime my annual driving energy can all come from my roof or from the grid, whichever is available and most cost optimal in the moment. Aside from the conscious choice occasionally to run my expensive tier metering to net zero, or having planned and practiced for a sustained grid outage, I really don't think about this anymore. It's surprisingly practical and easy and I'm confident in having more resilience than before. Often is easier than keeping my phone charged and running day to day.

As a clarification, the idea is that when the EV and battery are not present, energy comes from solar first then the grid. If EV and hub are present, the house load should draw from solar, EV batt, or grid as prioritized by the user. The user would ideally be able to program the SOC to leave on the EV, etc.

Being able to maintaining a chosen state of charge on the EV(s) battery is a critical component of the energy loop I'm attempting (poorly) to describe.

Thank you again for your time.

 

[tpepper]

As a clarification, the idea is that when the EV and battery are not present, energy comes from solar first then the grid. If EV and hub are present, the house load should draw from solar, EV batt, or grid as prioritized by the user. The user would ideally be able to program the SOC to leave on the EV, etc.

Being able to maintaining a chosen state of charge on the EV(s) battery is a critical component of the energy loop I'm attempting (poorly) to describe.

Thank you again for your time.

Yeah the SigEnergy app lets you do all of that.

 

[Ralph]

Yeah the SigEnergy app lets you do all of that.

I understood you to say that the EV had to be set to 100% SOC. If true, the loop described really doesn't work at all. I'm likely still missing something obvious!

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