Single Pedal Driving - Why Not an ICE Feature?

[Luxus]

First, I like 3 pedal driving the best. Going to two pedal was a hated but necessary adjustment for me once I needed a family hauler. Until then, every vehicle I owned had a manual box.

How do you like driving in slow bumper to bumper traffic with the 3 pedals? LOL.


As to the OP's question, I'm guessing a whole lot of it has to do with it being 'that is how it always has been' and everybody is used to it. In other words, why fix something that is not broken. Until EVs came along, nobody seriously thought about OPD. The only reason EVs started doing it was because of the regenerative braking. This is not a concern for your typical ICE vehicle.

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[Dweezil]

While at the dump today (sorry, Town Recycling Center) a fellow in a Jeep told me how much he liked the look of our R1T and was asking me about having an EV. One thing that i really like is single pedal driving. My wife drives a Volvo 90 Recharge Hybrid and, although it took me a while to figure out, it can be set up for single pedal driving and even has a setting for No Creep when stopped. Even when the engine is running it behaves exactly like the R1T, which makes switching back and forth much easier.

So it begs the question... since most all ICE vehicles have computer control of braking for anti-lock, our Rivians use the disc brakes when the regen can't do enough, and Volvo handles the braking and creep even when not running on electric, why don't many ICE vehicles employ "automatic" braking via the accelerator pedal?

I would reckon that it’s less efficient, creates more wear on brakes, and requires additional drivetrain/brake complexity…the return on investment (so to speak) doesn’t seem to be there for ICE vehicles…because I think we can all agree that it all comes down to the bottom line for the manufacturer…how much does it cost to implement and how much additional revenue might it generate.

Coming from a background of racing, I absolutely understand the desire of many to have that “connected, visceral” feel when driving at the limit, but for day to day driving I much prefer one pedal. I have mine set at max regen. For those that say coasting is more efficient…you’re not wrong, in certain situations. That being said, even at max regen one can modulate the one pedal to coast…it’s not a binary “go” or “stop”…there’s a whole middle area there in which one’s one foot can control, speed, coasting, braking and braking intensity. It takes a little time to get the feel for it but once you figure out the vehicle’s sweet spot for all of this (not difficult) OPD becomes pretty hard to ignore. BUT, everyone is different and has their own method of driving that they enjoy. There really isn’t a “wrong” answer.

Just my rambling .02 cents. I’m sure many will disagree with me. It’s just…like..my opinion, man.

 

[NY_Rob]

On older vehicles with automatic transmissions, the vehicle would slow down a decent amount if you lifted off the gas pedal, but that changed over time in the name of "fuel efficiency" to where they basically coast now until you apply the brakes. It was definitely a change for the worse IMO.

 

[mkg3]

How do you like driving in slow bumper to bumper traffic with the 3 pedals? LOL...

It does not bother me at all. I used to drive in the commute traffic with my manual box vehicles (and I live in SoCal with bazillion vehicles). It's not the most enjoyable condition and is an acceptable downside to the manual box. The upside far exceeds the down side.

Also I lived in San Francisco years ago for a short time and dealt with steep hills (had hand brake that made it super easy for uphill so that the clutch isn't abused).

 

[windblowlc]

It's inefficient, even on EVs. Coasting is significantly more efficient.

I am used it it, and can drive smoothly with it, but I still hate it after 3.5 years. I especially hate the part where it uses max regen at lower speeds using only front wheels. They almost lockup in the wet.

Almost doesn't count.

 

[FraserC]

Before even spending energy on pro's and con's, it would save wasted time just pondering how it might be made possible. ICE brakes all require mechanical input to a hydraulic system, and obviously some mechanism to do this (electric servo power?) is going to require a great deal of effort in design/manufacture/qualification, so a long term and significant cost. This cost would (obviously) be passed on to the consumers. Who in here thinks this might even have a hope of getting traction?

 

[CrazyOne]

Almost doesn't count.

Causes under steer when turning.

 

[Magicbus]

Before even spending energy on pro's and con's, it would save wasted time just pondering how it might be made possible. ICE brakes all require mechanical input to a hydraulic system, and obviously some mechanism to do this (electric servo power?) is going to require a great deal of effort in design/manufacture/qualification, so a long term and significant cost. This cost would (obviously) be passed on to the consumers. Who in here thinks this might even have a hope of getting traction?

Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure that all modern anti-lock/traction control brake systems already have a form of servo power to actuate the physical brakes. I watch them in action all the time with people who don't turn off traction control when they drive on the beach.

As for the cost paid by consumers, everything is paid by the consumer if they like it, think handsfree driving - or even if they don't like it, think every mandated "safety" and fuel economy feature.

 

[FraserC]

Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure that all modern anti-lock/traction control brake systems already have a form of servo power to actuate the physical brakes. I watch them in action all the time with people who don't turn off traction control when they drive on the beach.

As for the cost paid by consumers, everything is paid by the consumer if they like it, think handsfree driving - or even if they don't like it, think every mandated "safety" and fuel economy feature.

I totally agree with you, but using that crude servo to assist is dead easy, modulation is much more complex. There are similar systems, but they don't accomplish much to get a full one pedal system designed and into production. Just in tooling alone, this would be a monstrous cost.. Customers paying extra for this? I'm not holding my breath. Just listening to new EV drivers who have driven automatic trans ICE's complaining about how difficult one pedal is (not enough skill in pedal modulation learned) makes me doubt they will be queuing up to pay more for this!

 

[Kaiju]

On an ICE vehicle it'd more like automatic braking wearing OPD's skin in a way that would be received with blood-curdling horror by ICE drivers even if it's actually a useful safety feature. Hear me out on that one. It's genuinely fail-safe for a vehicle to come to a stop by itself if the driver is disabled or incapacitated by a medial issue or simply falling asleep and is no longer pushing the accelerator, rather than requiring explicit action on the brake to do anything other than let the inertia sort itself out one way or another. With various OPD implementations the brake lights come on and the deceleration can be just like moderate braking. Low speed brake holds mean they can't roll away due to negligence on the driver's part by getting out with it in gear. Foot slipping off the brake in a line of cars doesn't cause a fender bender.

It also decreases stopping distances by a bit because in the quarter second between moving from go pedal to stop pedal, the vehicle is already beginning to slow down. May not be a lot, but it's measureable and it's less.

A few ICE vehicles even have some of those OPD automatic braking features already, though they're mostly tied to driver monitoring systems where OPD isn't. There may be a future in which this sort of thing actually becomes mandatory.

OPD has its annoyances like having to learn how to feather the pedal to coast and the occasion of removing your foot for a second to do something like shift in your seat can cause a brief deceleration. The first one requires attention and effort and is a driving skill. The second one is a nuisance that has no actual solution, but honestly not much different in principle than a manual rolling backwards on a hill when starting from a stop. I'd argue that the benefits outweigh the risks there.

 

[2kwik4u]

It could be done but would be hard on the brakes as well as less efficient in an ICE because it would negate the ability to coast.

FYI, coasting in an EV is also more efficient than high regen.

One pedal driving started as a party trick from Tesla (like no physical keys) and has become a standard that, well, isn't the best solution to the particular problem at hand.

 

[HaveBlue]

If one pedal was so great, there wouldn't be a brake pedal.

Physical Brakes are still better to modulate and when you need them, the car still comes to a stop after you let go of the brakes because the Regen continues. Then throttle needs to be fed back in. It makes for a clunky system still. Just different clunky from a ice car.

One pedal for normal driving does react faster since your foot doesn't need to move to a different pedal for both starting and stopping.

My conclusion is that one pedal added to the clunking shifting creeping auto start stop of an ice would make them even more terrible.

 

[mellowthecat]

We test drove an R1S last week. The wow factor was real. It was my partner and I's first time driving an EV, and I thought we were going to hate OPD. We both loved it. We test drove other EV's after and hated that they did not have OPD. Now, an ICE car is completely different. I gain most of my MPG by gliding in an ICE vehicle. It would save on brake pads, but I don't think that is significant enough to offset the MPG loss by gliding. Now if there was some sort of regen in an ICE vehicle, I think that would make sense with OPD

 

[Davethadog]

Each pedal is its own mechanical system and that’s the way it should be. I do not even like the fact that Rivian uses mechanical brakes on regen without my permission.

 

[Jim G]

I'm new to following Rivian and have a deposit down for an R2. I'm very excited for the most part, but one of the things I wonder about is why Rivian won't/doesn't offer a setting to turn off regenerative braking. I certainly understand that many drivers feel strongly that regenerative braking is valuable from a range standpoint and most seem to love single pedal driving, but I'm surprised that what seems like a simple software option hasn't been incorporated.

Rivian doesn't have to recommend it, but I'd bet there are drivers who might convert if the vehicle behaved like one they've driven for decades and is easier to drive smoothly given their old habits. I also think that option must make sense from a range standpoint if you're doing 70 MPH on the highway where it makes more sense to support coasting rather than try to reclaim a small percent of energy which will be more than lost accelerating back to the targeted speed. Plus I worry that the potential to introduce some harsh drag as a new EV driver that I might feel better without that potential braking on some icy surfaces. I'm sure new EV drivers will welcome all the advice and wisdom of other drivers and the manufacturer, but I can't believe Rivian doesn't offer what seems to be a cost-free option that would be harmless from their standpoint but would support more types of drivers and customization.

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