Ketchum: Wait for LiDAR? - The Rivian R2 LiDAR story isn’t what you think

[UnsungZero_OldTimeAdMan]

Does anyone know if the pre and post LIDAR will be running the same software and training data or will there be enhancements in 1-2 years that will be applicable only to post LIDAR. For example, if post LIDAR is better at detecting railroad crossings, construction zones, emergency vehicles, etc. will those enhancements automatically get into pre LIDAR or will RIVIAN have to maintain both old and new software...in which case there is risk at some point that the older version will get less support. Given that they will be using different chips, will there be significant differences in software.

Short answer: no one outside knows. All that is known is what’s been said at events and to the press, which is public record you can search and find it online.

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[godfodder0901]

I thought they said UHF would work on any roads with clearly painted lines, not just mapped areas. I'm I missing something?

Yep, UHF is only included in Autonomy+, so it isn't free.

 

[rvnxyz001]

Does anyone know if the pre and post LIDAR will be running the same software and training data or will there be enhancements in 1-2 years that will be applicable only to post LIDAR. For example, if post LIDAR is better at detecting railroad crossings, construction zones, emergency vehicles, etc. will those enhancements automatically get into pre LIDAR or will RIVIAN have to maintain both old and new software...in which case there is risk at some point that the older version will get less support. Given that they will be using different chips, will there be significant differences in software.

Here is one of the answers they gave:

Both Gen 3 (RAP1) and Gen 2 platform vehicles will have similar levels of capability at both the base and Autonomy+ levels for the next couple of years. Since all Autonomy features are based on the same underlying technology, base autonomy features will continue to improve along with new Autonomy+ features.

LiDAR on R2 will have the same core feature set as non-LiDAR vehicles, including Autonomy+, with the main difference being that over time LiDAR vehicles will require less supervision including greater eyes-off support.


Rivian said in its April 2026 earnings call that eyes-off Level 3 would begin in specific areas during 2027, followed by the first Level 4 robotaxi deployments in 2028.

 

[JeffnReno]

Yep, UHF is only included in Autonomy+, so it isn't free.

So if it doesn't have Autonomy+, it will only do features like lane keep on mapped areas? All the more reason for getting that feature included for the life of the vehicle. That's one of the features that Tesla has removed from their new vehicles without paying $99 a month. Glad that the R2 Launch Edition makes my choice easier.

 

[ndmiller]

You will have to pay $2,500 for Autonomy+ and maybe more for the car if Rivian raises prices

Rivian will be raising prices, all manufacturers do almost every year. At best they'll bury it in Destination so an increase, but not technically on the vehicle. $2500+any increase will push people to not buy Autonomy up front fueling an eventual subscription model like Tesla has adopted.

I also think eye's off support while possible won't be around anytime in the next 1/2 decade based on legal infrastructure in the US and individual states. Said another way, eye's off may be perfect but certainly won't be legal esimilar to the last decade's illegal matrix lights in US but legal in Europe. US laws are slow and have been behind technology since forever.

 

[runwithscissors]

They should consider free lifetime 12v battery replacements as a draw considering what Rivian charges just for that every few years....

The trick is to have them fail before the 12 months are up. I'm on my 3rd recently and have never paid for any of them. Right after the update, boom, warning replace the battery. I'm just glad I never got stuck anywhere (yet).

 

[Zathras]

Higher the trim, higher the profit margin. That is the norm in the car industry. I feel like Base trim (including the $45k model) will not have the option. Knowing there are people willing to wait and pay more for latest-and-greatest, I think they will use LiDAR/RAP as the carrot to up-sell to higher trims. We'll see in due time.

All the times RJ has said by 3030 expectations will be that every single car you can buy will have autonomy. I don't see them making that a differentiator.

 

[Zathras]

Does anyone know if the pre and post LIDAR will be running the same software and training data or will there be enhancements in 1-2 years that will be applicable only to post LIDAR. For example, if post LIDAR is better at detecting railroad crossings, construction zones, emergency vehicles, etc. will those enhancements automatically get into pre LIDAR or will RIVIAN have to maintain both old and new software...in which case there is risk at some point that the older version will get less support. Given that they will be using different chips, will there be significant differences in software.

From what they are saying, it would be reasonable to assume that Gen 2 vehicles will get every benefit they can from the data wheel that LiDAR will make possible. Potholes in roads, features on roadways, etc. Obviously they won't detect objects in real time without LiDAR. But what permanent data is added to the wheel is there for all Gen2 and later vehicles.

 

[Jeremy3292]

Current R2 Gen2 NVIDIA Orin chips are as capable from every technical perspective as Tesla AI4, plus R2 has radar also. Do with that info what you want.

 

[macb00kemdanno]

All the times RJ has said by 3030 expectations will be that every single car you can buy will have autonomy. I don't see them making that a differentiator.

I think WWVIII will have wiped out humanity by then

 

[UnsungZero_OldTimeAdMan]

All the times RJ has said by 3030 expectations will be that every single car you can buy will have autonomy. I don't see them making that a differentiator.

Well, they said gen1 would have greater capability than what actually happened too and enough people feel mislead enough for a class action to be a thing. Business plans can change. Don't count your chickens just yet. Plus, "if it's not written on paper, it never happened."

 

[maba2366]

I think they’ll continue the LE until there is no more demand for it, then they’ll introduce RAP1/LIDAR. By doing it that way, you’re keeping your sales channels full with demand and matching it to supply while maximizing revenue.

They need to get the Lidar out as soon as they can. The Lidar is not there to help the individual customer in the short term, it is there to help Rivian train their models....that is their only path to narrow Tesla's 10 year head start.

 

[Gen(R3)Xer]

Lease rates will follow the price structure of the Model Y. So, pick the tesla equivalent model and see the rates. Rivian has no incentive to be lower price as the R2 is much more compelling than a model Y.

The trouble is the R2 doesn’t exactly sync up with Tesla Model Y’s pricing and/or features. I could do a lease payment of $450 a month, but that’s based on the Model Y Standard RWD. The R2 Standard RWD is closer in price to the Model Y Premium ($45K-$50K), but then the lease payment would be $599-$699 a month.

The average salary in the U.S. is approximately $66,622 as of 2025. That’s approximately $5,552 a month before taxes. A person is supposed to spend no more that 10% of their monthly income on a car payment and no more than 15% of their monthly income on transportation, including insurance and charging.

Not a current Rivian owner, so please allow a simple question:
I don’t care that much about hands free driving, but I really love adaptive cruise on my Lyriq, and auto lane centering that I had in Tesla's Autosteer. Is that combination standard on the R2, or is that only available on Autonomy+ ?

I think it’s on Autonomy+ and called UHF (universal hands free). It’s more of an advanced cruise control that doesn’t stop at stop signs and stop lights, but it’s fine on highways. Correct me if I’m wrong, but it should be able to do lane changes as well.

 

[rvnxyz001]

The average salary in the U.S. is approximately $66,622 as of 2025. That’s approximately $5,552 a month before taxes. A person is supposed to spend no more that 10% of their monthly income on a car payment and no more than 15% of their monthly income on transportation, including insurance and charging.

We’d probably have lower car prices if people compared the OTD price to their annual salary...

The R2 Launch Edition will be around $65,000 OTD in California. For someone earning the average salary of roughly $66,000, that leaves about $1,000 for everything else.

At that point, a heavily used Tesla Model 3 RWD probably makes a lot more sense

 

[Gen(R3)Xer]

We’d probably have lower car prices if people compared the OTD price to their annual salary...

The R2 Launch Edition will be around $65,000 OTD in California. For someone earning the average salary of roughly $66,000, that leaves about $1,000 for everything else.

At that point, a heavily used Tesla Model 3 RWD probably makes a lot more sense

I’m driving a leased Model 3 now. I could do a buyout at $26K at the end of next year. I’d like to support Rivian though. I want to see another US EV maker become successful. Prove the market wrong. We can grow the EV market organically if the form factor and price are right. We don’t want to fall behind China and Europe. It’s embarrassing. We should be leading this movement.

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