Four years, four R1Ts. An adventure and a bitter-sweet cautionary tale.

[Webleyaz]

My question is how did this past 3.5 years compare to the fleet they replaced?
That being asked, I do hope someone comes up with a setup to replace the exceptionally complex suspension system with some coils/struts so these things don't start clogging up salvage yards when a damper starts leaking and the 3rd owners can't afford to spend what they paid for the vehicle to have it repaired. Or at least some a/m options for replacement parts and a Hanes guide for the DIY crowd. We're a huge group, btw.

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[Parsival]

The original Audi Allroad had air suspension that was plagued w issues like all air suspension seems to have. Eventually a manually adjustable coilover kit came out which I hope is the case for the R1s. The fly in the ointment is the incredible amount of complexity that a software driven car like the R1 is to just remove and replace. The software will probably go bonkers if there is no static mode so it won’t try to self level, raise, kneel etc….

 

[onesoil]

I’m curious how folks are burning through brakes so much. I drive through the Rocky Mountains and I almost never touch my brake pedal. I’ve never had to replace a pad on any of my three Rivians.

Same! I was shocked when we were told my father's truck needed brakes at around 17k miles. He drives verrrrry slow/chill (in keeping with his grandpa status)—he also almost never uses his brakes, though our trucks seem to use friction brakes a lot throughout most of the winter and the cooler parts of spring/fall. I pushed the SC for an explaination pretty hard, especially after the second brake job (at around 20k miles on my truck)—I linked a summary of their response in a prior post (https://www.rivianforums.com/forum/...tter-sweet-cautionary-tale.61073/post-1040589), which was frankly pretty dissapointing; they claimed at the time that Vermont and other rural New England owners seemed to be having much higher need for pads/rotors at low miles.

I think a combination of long stretches of time with infrequent use (and therefore lack of debris clearance) when temperatures allow for full regen capabilities combined with alternately long stretches of time with little to no regen due to cold might have something to do with it. This combined with my current favorite theory—given to me by a mobile tech who normally works out of an SC and has been with Rivian for over three years—that the brakes don't receive sufficient airflow due to intentionally smooth aerodynamics around the wheel wells to "wash" the calipers when driving in the wet, which occurs on other vehicles. This doesn't exactly explain why other people are getting so much longer life out of them, but it could be a combination of this attribute plus our environment (lots of dirt roads, salt in the winter, cold temps that reduce/eliminate regen capabilities for long stretches, etc.). I don't know, but it certainly hasn't been cheap for us!

 

[darediavel]

Missed if was already mentioned in the thread. Possible to add
Suspension mode / Hight
Drive mode
Regen settings
Wheel size

During majority usage.

 

[aAlpine]

This thread is great! Thank you OP for the data and writeup, and for everyone's responses which have been a very rational discussion (unlike some reddit threads that get downvoted or reliability concerns are just dismissed).

I'm unfortunately one of the unlucky ones. I'm 4 hours away from a service center (one way), and have visited it 6 times in less than 2 years of ownership. I haven't been stranded yet, but this is getting tiring. My service center has been absolutely amazing 90% of the time, but getting to know the staff by name isn't a good sign.

I've still got plenty of warranty left, so really hoping that as repairs are done, there are redesigned and improved parts being installed. Seeing this thread and the repeated failures of HVAC/dampers gives me real worries.

Hyundai has had their very public ICCU issue, which seems to be an engineering/design issue, and although they seem to have maybe (?) not solved it, nor been transparent about it, they have at least extended the warranty for that part for 15 years/180k miles. Rivian doing something similar for things like 12V, HVAC, and suspension would be a HUGE positive for customers, and signalling Rivian has confidence in their vehicles. Purchasing extended warranty is not an option where I live.

 

[srkz]

Regarding the brake anomaly - do you guys happen to live at the top of a hill and regularly descend it in the mornings? Cold weather causes regen to be severely limited early on in a drive, and if you're descending in elevation first thing in the morning on your commute into town regularly that could explain why you're running through brake pads so quickly.

I live in a flat part of sunny California and at 40k miles my pads and rotors still look brand new.

 

[portdirect]

Regarding the brake anomaly - do you guys happen to live at the top of a hill and regularly descend it in the mornings? Cold weather causes regen to be severely limited early on in a drive, and if you're descending in elevation first thing in the morning on your commute into town regularly that could explain why you're running through brake pads so quickly.

I live in a flat part of sunny California and at 40k miles my pads and rotors still look brand new.

Temperature is likley to be the biggest impact from what you mentioned about your location. One of the biggest changes I've noticed in our rivians over the years was how much 'pure' regen has reduced over time. Originally when we got our 1st R1 ther was no 'blended' regen - and it was great in most conditions, reducing at around 40f, but still active even at freezing temps. Now with our G2 Tri, and G1 Dual - both of them use the brakes *a LOT* when the temp is below ~60f, and without it the one-pedal driving experience is severely diminished - turning it off when close to freezing, may as well not have any regen at all.

 

[onesoil]

This is a great thread. I wish it'd get the attention of people at Rivian.

I'd like to say my experiences were different, but they haven't been. My gen 1 has clocked similar 70+ day times in service, though over a far shorter time frame. I bought a high vin gen 1 hoping the kinks had been worked out. Definitely didn't pan out in my favor there. I've been equally frustrated with the service apparatus.

Personally I think my local SC has been trying to push issues under the rug because I have never gotten a single post-service survey for me to report problems and I've caught them damaging stuff on my truck more than once. Not little stuff like scratching my wheels, though that happens. They broke my bumper and didn't say a word. I'll give it to them they fixed it after making me come out there again and leave it for a few weeks, but...really? You definitely understand how frustrating it is trying to talk to anyone above an SC manager about problems related to a service center that they aren't solving themselves. You've definitely got to be assertive if not aggressive to keep from being run over and I honestly don't like having to be a dick about it to keep from getting brushed off.

I live in an area where Rivians are still rare and without making any active effort to shame the brand I can't hide the fact my truck is missing for weeks. I get asked what happened to it. To those people it may as well be radioactive at this point. Zero sales will be sparked by anyone within its historic light cone.

So much of it is an own goal too. I'm fairly sure that most of my days in service has been sitting there waiting to get looked at and then waiting for parts that aren't stocked. Something that could have taken one or two days to fix turns into three or four weeks, even if that appointment was made 6 weeks before it's dropped off. From what I understand from expressing my frustrations with employees, Rivian's systems won't allow an SC to schedule its own work to avoid those problems. Every vehicle gets the same time blockout and they can't control what's coming in, so difficult jobs create a pileup. That seems to be very much some techbro mentality at work. I also don't get why a brand with (until recently) two models with identical drivetrains couldn't stock parts locally.

I feel similarly conflicted on keeping mine because I've also had a bad time, but there's nothing else like the R1T. At least not yet.

Wow! I feel like I could have written some of this myself... unfortunately. It's a bummer to hear about people with similar experiences, since some part of me actually wants to believe that we're just particularly unlucky (though there are too many obvious and glaring cracks showing at this point to really believe this is the case). Sure, there are obviously many people with much more reliable experiences, and while perhaps we (the ones with less positive anecdotes to share) are just a vocal minority, there seem to be strong recurring (costly) failure patterns frequently emerge; suspension and driveline components, brakes, HVAC, etc. and then some odball ones like steering wheels, door handles, etc., etc., as well as the patterns surrounding service communications, wait times, etc., that are certainly cause for concern and in my opinion shouldn't be dismissed as merely an angry few, or misconstrued as inherently bashing a new brand or whatever other reasons given by some to dismiss our experiences.

My father's truck actually had its roof glass smashed when they went to replace the rear glass (which he smashed with a piece of hardwood he was putting in the back that took a bad bounce into the rear glass—it turns out the glass is only $574, but they have to replace the rear spoiler (with camera/brake light), which was $1,343—total cost was $3,309 (). The roof glass they smashed was $1,766, which they of course covered. And then his windshiled took a massive rock on the way back from the SC so that had to get replaced on the next trip. Maybe we are cursed... My truck had its windshield broken while doing the first HVAC job. They covered this, of course as well. I get it; accidents happen, and they did make right on these incidents with no friction other than some extra time in the SC due to unforseen parts/labor etc.

However, the last time my father's truck was in for service, they broke his bumper too. They were investigating why his truck was throwing proximity sensor errors. His bumper was already a little dinged up (in the area of the fake skid plate). They called to ask if we wanted to replace the bumper, due to it being broken and therefore their not being able to repair the sensors since they couldn't determine that it wasn't due to front end damage (the damage was nowhere near the sensors which were corroded just like mine, which got replaced under warranty shortly after).

We declined because my father is pretty fed up with the mounting costs of owning the thing. He is also getting older and has some neuropathy/depth judgement issues that have resulted in him bumping the thing into a fair amount of rocks/trees, and he just doesn't really care about cosmetics. We are very different in this respect. I probably would have just paid to have it fixed so that the intermittent sensor error would go away, and because it pains me to see dented/cracked body panels/bumpers/trim etc. When we got the truck back, we could tell that the bumper was significantly more broken than when it went down. We pressed on this, but without having photos of the before and after (or the before, anyway), we couldn't really prove that they broke it *more* than it already was, so we just let it be for now.(the sensors are visibly corroded, just like mine were), but they broke it in the process and nobody would admit to doing so.

Your post reminded me of a few things I didn't go into much detail about:

• Overall, service staff has been very pleasant to deal with, but I too have experienced a lot of days in the shop before they even "dispatch" the truck (Rivian internal language used to describe the moment it goes from the parking lot into the shop). This wasted time makes no sense to me—why bother scheduling people far out to just have the vehicles wait in the lot to be diagnosed, especially if parts then have to be ordered, which adds even more time. This seems to have gotten a bit better over the years, and as there have been more Service Centers added to New England/North East.
• No direct phone lines to the SC means you have to get to know everyon'es first names at the SC so you can call the 855 number and insist you get transferred directly to the SC to speak with [insert name], or else you have to explain your whole story over again and hope the message gets relayed. This has gotten a bit better too, and I've been hearing for ~6 months or so that direct lines will be coming s00n (I kept hearing next months for a couple months, then just "sometime soon" ). There is so much added inneficiency due to this simple tech-bro communication "solution" to a problem nobody had (this system is not an improvement on the old tried and true model of reaching someone directly in the service department).
• The optics for anyone who knows me/our Rivians are not good; though we almost always get loaners when our trucks go in for service (at my insistence), people have definitely noticed the raindbow of differnt colored Rivians colors that we have been driving around due to our trucks being down so frequently. Our experience has definitly deterred some in our area who are considering them. We have what seems like quite a lot of Rivians in our area (per capita, anyway),

 

[onesoil]

Temperature is likley to be the biggest impact from what you mentioned about your location. One of the biggest changes I've noticed in our rivians over the years was how much 'pure' regen has reduced over time. Originally when we got our 1st R1 ther was no 'blended' regen - and it was great in most conditions, reducing at around 40f, but still active even at freezing temps. Now with our G2 Tri, and G1 Dual - both of them use the brakes *a LOT* when the temp is below ~60f, and without it the one-pedal driving experience is severely diminished - turning it off when close to freezing, may as well not have any regen at all.

Yes, this does seem to be the case—I too recall before brake blend was an option, Regen seemed to be available more often than not until temperatures were in the mid/high 30s or low 40s. I do remember "losing" all regen on some lengthier descents, which was a little unnerving at the time (with no brake blend option, it takes a second to recalibrate from one-pedal to needing to use the brake pedal).

I have tried repeatedly to have my truck diagnosed because it seems to lack regen more often than some of the others—but I've pretty much narrowed it down to the following conditions: driving down a ~500ft elevation drop to our town every morning on the way to my sons school, often on a cold battery and then charging at work and then driving down the same hill. I consistentlly have very little or no regen if I drive right after AC charging. Perhaps the inverters are at max temps? Nobody at Rivian has been able to explain this. I posted a photo that shows the conditions I'm describing here (and have many others just like it). https://www.rivianforums.com/forum/...tter-sweet-cautionary-tale.61073/post-1040655

 

[onesoil]

Regarding the brake anomaly - do you guys happen to live at the top of a hill and regularly descend it in the mornings? Cold weather causes regen to be severely limited early on in a drive, and if you're descending in elevation first thing in the morning on your commute into town regularly that could explain why you're running through brake pads so quickly.

I live in a flat part of sunny California and at 40k miles my pads and rotors still look brand new.

Yes, we live about 500ft above our downtown and I drive down the hill almost every morning to drop my son off at school, and then typically again at least once or twice throughout the day. I do think limited regen is an issue, though I had brake blending turned off for at least 10k miles after the first brake job until a Service Manager recommended I just leave it on since it's likely more to do with lack of brake use than over use. I'm not sure I agree with him, but honestly I found it frustrating how often I had to be on the brakes due to limited/no regen so I just said f**k it and turned it back on

It's pretty hard not to live or frequently drive on some hill or another in Vermont—just the lay of the land around here! It is the "Green Mountain State," after all While that may well be the reason, it doesn't square with our experience with Teslas, Toyotas, Nissans (EV and non-EV), Volvo (EV), Hyundai EVs, Audis, Subarus, GMC, etc.... All within the past 10 years in the same locations driven by the same four people. None of these vehicles have had to have brakes done under 50k miles (some weren't owned for quite that long, to be honest, but all had well over 20k miles that we put on without needing pads/rotors).

We can't all live in a flat part of sunny California, after all! I do genuinely think these vehicles were designed by/for people who have garages and live in more temperate/kinder climates/environments. Perhaps not intentionally, but by nature of Rivian HQ location and these being the first platform they rolled out. Sure, they took some trips to Alaska, but that's not the same as day in day out living in our slushy/salty winters and mud seasons for a couple of years. The manufacturers I listed have all had decades to work on their reliability in our climates, but it doesn't mean we shouldn't expect that Rivian could put out a product that competes given how many industry insiders they have on their teams,. right?

 

[onesoil]

Missed if was already mentioned in the thread. Possible to add
Suspension mode / Hight
Drive mode
Regen settings
Wheel size

During majority usage.

All trucks have 20" AT wheels/tires. 3/4 have needed new tires under 20k. The fourth will be getting them any minute. In the winter we run Hakkapeliittaas. While I can't speak for all four to the same degree as my own truck, I believe almost all our driving is in standard or snow modes, standard ride height.

I have spent a small fraction of my time in eco mode (I'd guess less than 1%), but find it annoying (the front wheel drive torque steer feeling—I have always wished they went with rear biased not front on the quads).

In the last 6 months I've played around with being in high mode at lower speeds because I find it is more comfortable over some of the rougher roads in our area, but I'd say my truck has spent less than 10% of its time in high.

I have been in sport mode a bit more now that I can run sport mode with standard ride height (low is just too bouncy/uncomfortable for most roads around here).

Regen is usually set to standard in my truck, and though I spent ~10k miles with brake blending turned off after my first brake job, I have subsequently turned it back on because there's really nothing I can do about how often regen is limited/nonexistant and whether I'm doing the braking myself or the truck is, either way friction brakes are called for when there isn't regen and I need to slow down, so I don't see the point in turning it off and it feels a bit dangerous when off.

 

[Husky]

Temperature is likley to be the biggest impact from what you mentioned about your location. One of the biggest changes I've noticed in our rivians over the years was how much 'pure' regen has reduced over time. Originally when we got our 1st R1 ther was no 'blended' regen - and it was great in most conditions, reducing at around 40f, but still active even at freezing temps. Now with our G2 Tri, and G1 Dual - both of them use the brakes *a LOT* when the temp is below ~60f, and without it the one-pedal driving experience is severely diminished - turning it off when close to freezing, may as well not have any regen at all.

Huh?? This is the first I've ever heard of regen being affected by ambient temp. Why would that be?
I've been driving our AWD EV6 for 2.5 years now, all year long in NH, with temps ranging from 0F to 100F and never noticed any change in regen. I live on a hill at 950', about 650' above anywhere that I go, so I'm braking a lot in the first couple of miles every time I leave the house. I have regen set for level 3, which is just short of true OPD. I only need to use the brakes for full stops. At 36,500 miles our brakes are in great shape. Why would the Rivian be different?

 

[srkz]

it doesn't square with our experience with Teslas, Toyotas, Nissans (EV and non-EV), Volvo (EV), Hyundai EVs, Audis, Subarus, GMC, etc.... All within the past 10 years in the same locations driven by the same four people. None of these vehicles have had to have brakes done under 50k miles (some weren't owned for quite that long, to be honest, but all had well over 20k miles that we put on without needing pads/rotors).

All of the other brands you listed use blended braking at the pedal, so when you press on the brake pedal it always uses available regen and only blends in the pads when needed. Tesla and Rivian are the only two EV brands where the brake pedal is always mechanical and lift-off is the only way to get regen. It's stupid as hell and might have something to do with your situation as well. Even Tesla has recently moved away from the design and gone to a fully blended brake pedal on the newest model of the Y, so hopefully Rivian catches up soon.

 

[Webleyaz]

I've had lots of cars w/o regen that didn't eat brakes in less than 20k miles. Even doing frequent burnouts.

 

[onesoil]

Temperature is likley to be the biggest impact from what you mentioned about your location. One of the biggest changes I've noticed in our rivians over the years was how much 'pure' regen has reduced over time. Originally when we got our 1st R1 ther was no 'blended' regen - and it was great in most conditions, reducing at around 40f, but still active even at freezing temps. Now with our G2 Tri, and G1 Dual - both of them use the brakes *a LOT* when the temp is below ~60f, and without it the one-pedal driving experience is severely diminished - turning it off when close to freezing, may as well not have any regen at all.

How have your brakes fared?

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